Houston Astros (and Red Sox) Stealing Signs

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  • #122350
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Yikes!

    #122357
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    I have no doubt at this point the Astros cheating was far deeper than MLB’s report suggested (as the Wall Street Journal also revealed). Its a simple answer and if you didn’t use buzzers say no. Why heme and hall about answering the question? The fact he didn’t want his jersey ripped off him is more incriminating. Astros are gonna set a team record in hit by pitches this year.

    #122373
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    BlackHillsCard wrote:

    I have no doubt at this point the Astros cheating was far deeper than MLB’s report suggested

    We may never know how deep the cheating went or what the actual effect was on the games won/lost. But, as for me, I will choose to concentrate on the coming season and let bygones be bygones. No doubt there will be a lot of close observation this season of sign stealing but I am actually surprised that a similar system hasn’t been disclosed until now. In NASCAR they used to say “If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying” and I am sure it has been a similar thing in baseball and every other competitive sport. So now it’s on to 2020 and the Cards next World Series win.

    So hilarious, I tried to use my newfound knowledge of quoting in shading words and the system backfired on me and I managed to get it 180 degrees off kilter. Oh well, I better stay home today.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by AvatarMinuteman3.
    #122427
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Not all players believe Altuve’s insistence that he did not use a buzzer. Cody Bellinger is among them.

    #122430
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Not all players believe Altuve’s insistence that he did not use a buzzer. Cody Bellinger is among them.

    That’s certainly some very strong evidence. I wonder if this incident will become a major stain on some otherwise great careers?

    For that matter, if the Astros team OPS drops 50 or 100 points this year, how bad a look is that going to be?

    #122431
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    stlcard25 asked:

    For that matter, if the Astros team OPS drops 50 or 100 points this year, how bad a look is that going to be?

    They will just blame it on Dusty. 😉

    #122434
    Avatar1982 willie
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    that was a pretty sad conference. Verlanders was really sad. he said he wished he had spoken up more. yea no doubt sherlock especially given you are a pitcher. these players should all have been suspended and the championship and pennant taken away. the fact the commissioner decided not to combined with them not wanting to give players like pete rose and the players in the black sox scandal another chance is just morally wrong.

    #122440
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    It was a weird moment and it even prompted Ken Rosenthal to ask him about not wanting his shirt ripped off. More bizarre, though, was Altuve’s answer about not wanting his shirt ripped off.

    “What’s that? I don’t know man. hehehe I’m too shy. Last time they did that I got into trouble with my wife. hehehe”

    That’s a direct quote.

    #122459
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    All MLB players belong to a union and this is the respect they have for one another? Will the union leadership bring the cheats up on charges? Disciplinary action from within their org? Fines? I would hope so, but I think not.

    #122460
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    That’s not how unions work. They aren’t there to protect the game. They aren’t there to look out for the members that do things the right way. They basically do the opposite.

    #122461
    Avatar1964cards
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    I would be shocked If the union were to discipline any of the players involved. I have also heard one prominent agent say the players involved are not to be blamed – it is fault of poor management. Having said this, the players involved will live with a mark on their resume. Opponents will be mad as they were cheated by these guys – we have already heard some of the outrage. I would hope that Front Office personnel take a skeptical view towards What these players have done over the past three seasons.

    It will be interesting to see if more Information comes out that was nit released by MLB. If so, how much more damaging and how does MLB react.

    #122462
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    cycle, you didn’t describe a union. Any union that allows one member to directly affect another members wages / livelihood (edit….in a negative way) should re-write it’s by-laws, if they even have any.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl.
    #122467
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    How did the union help out when PEDs were rampant? Did they fight for the clean guys or the users? I perfectly described unions. You described what they should be.

    #122471
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Your examples are of an association of mlb mercenaries, cloaked under the disguise of a union. Not an impressive show of unity by their brotherhood, is it, as you have noted. Please don’t confuse their actions as union like.

    #122474
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    Tell be about all the unions you know that are quick to let their members get fired/punished for poor behavior.

    #122476
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    I am believing Albert less and less as it appears the whole pitching staff knew. I mind that he lies about it much more than if he knew.

    #122479
    AvatarOquendo11
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    Did the pitching staff know it continued in 2018, or were they only aware of the 2017 cheating?

    #122482
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    In thinking about the whole sitution including Albert and his knowledge I come up with this. If you had a job or were a player in a business that you have dreamed about as a kid and have finally made the top rung are you going to snitch to MLB on something you either know or suspect is going on that may be illegal or maybe not. Afterall every player knows that their grandpa stole signs if they could so they may just figure this is today’s version of it. They don’t get memos from MLB headquarters.

    So it boils down to being like something we see in the ‘hood’ – you don’t snitch and risk losing your job or player status and are disrespected by your teammates.

    As for who should be suspended or expelled, I think they have taken the head off the snake and the snakelings are now fully aware of what the red line is for stealing signs. But I still laugh when they say – No electronic devices in the dugout and you see almost every player staring at one of those little tablets during the World Series. Where is the line?

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by AvatarMinuteman3.
    #122484
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    cycle,

    Signatory contractors (teams) hire and fire, not unions, that I’m aware of. The teams employees belong to what they call a pool of union members. When individual members break rules of conduct (by-laws) that are supposed to represent the entire membership equally and fairly, those members are typically fined and occasionally suspended, sometimes both. With these cheating players, the best way to punish them would be through their wallet, by heavy fines, which get donated to charities.

    A productive union would then place members in the workplace, designated to represent the unions best interest and uphold the by-laws for all members, equally. In the players union, they have player reps, on each individual team. So consider that the Astros player reps watched the opposing team union members get cheated daily, for years, which did effect those opposing members livelihood. Those player reps either didn’t report the cheating, or the leadership they reported it to, swept it under the rug. The cheating got stopped by MLB, not the players union.

    Union leadership should want feedback from the workplace. Every member in my union can walk in any district council, ask for a grievance form, and receive one immediately to fill out before you leave. I can file a grievance against the top dog, or the newest member, doesn’t matter who, but the grievance needs to be legit. Every member has this right, and every member knows they can be filed against, which gives the process credibility and keeps the membership marching united in the right direction, within the by-laws. What unions can’t have, is their membership running rampant for selfish reasons. The memberships beliefs and by-laws must come first, and that belief must come from the members hearts.

    When I look at the cheating players, their player reps and the players leadership, I don’t see a united brotherhood. Evidently their union has different values than what I’m used to. The cheating members remind me of children who can’t tell themselves no, and make it stick, but that’s more of an adult quality.

    sorry so long winded, the topic is dear to my heart.

    #122511
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    It seems Marwin had a good reason to apologize.

    #122516
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Odd how the peak of their cheating resulted in Marwin’s career season. Granted most players peak during ages 27-29, but his numbers in 2017 for his age-28 season are so much greater than the seasons before and after.

    #122519
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    #122520
    Avatargscottar
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    #122521
    Avatargscottar
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    #122523
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Correa is saying Altuve, Reddick and Kemp didn’t participate in the cheating which isn’t supported by the Data compiled in the report from Tony Adams. Kemp is the only one who probably didn’t cheat, but its hard to fully know because the Astros also cheated on the road using other methods. Also, Correa is know saying Altuve didn’t want the jersey ripped off because he had an unfinished neck tattoo that looked bad. Perhaps Correa should have asked for a recess so he could confer with Altuve on what the story is.

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