Houston Astros (and Red Sox) Stealing Signs

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  • #119876
    AvatarBob Reed
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    “The funny thing is that the effect that mudville describes sounds a lot more like the effect that greenies gave to players for decades. But we will never criticize those guys, because ‘amphetamines aren’t nearly as helpful as steroids.'”

    ————————–

    We’ve been over this ground, tripleshy. Two months ago on this very thread.

    Greenies were banned in April of 1971, just like anabolic steroids without a proper prescription. Anyone taking greenies before that (Mickey Mantle, et. al.) was NOT violating MLB’s Drug Policy. Anyone who used greenies after April 1971 would have been in violation of MLB’s formal drug policy.

    And I have no doubt that some ballplayers still chose to violate that policy — because of human nature being a flawed thing. There are liars and cheats and thieves in every single occupation, every social strata. But two months ago, your claim was that numerous players were taking greenies AFTER the ban of 1971. Specifically, you offered this:

    “Bob, they (amphetamines) were commonplace in baseball throughout the 90’s, and the nineties use was less than the 80’s. And the 80’s less than the 70’s. And if my elders are to be believed, the 70’s were their peak (into the early 80’s).”

    I don’t know who you referenced by citing your “elders,” but I invited you then, and invite you now, to provide one article, one link to any scrap of concrete evidence, or even anecdotal ex-player confessorial evidence, of the “commonplace” use of greenies at any point AFTER the ban by Bowie Kuhn in 1971. You provided no evidence then, and now two more months have passed.

    If I’m ignorant or naïve, then please enlighten me. Enlighten all of us.

    #119893
    Avatargscottar
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    Except for one thing. I think once you started wailing away on your trash can “once, sometimes twice” as you say, you would find it impossible not to use that as a lead in to go right into theme songs of some of your fav tv shows.

    Isn’t that a Lionel Richie song?

    #119894
    Avatargscottar
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    Oh boy, it keeps getting better, with more and more people announcing things….

    Stealing known since 2017; HGH?

    If there is any truth to the accusations against Trout then the whole sport is in trouble.

    If not then this Brosius kid needs to be sued for libel or slander.

    #119900
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    With everything that’s going on in MLB right now, someone made a viral video using a scene from the movie “Mean Girls” to show what’s been going on.

    #119904
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    I don’t know who you referenced by citing your “elders,” but I invited you then, and invite you now, to provide one article, one link to any scrap of concrete evidence, or even anecdotal ex-player confessorial evidence, of the “commonplace” use of greenies at any point AFTER the ban by Bowie Kuhn in 1971. You provided no evidence then, and now two more months have passed.

    If I’m ignorant or naïve, then please enlighten me. Enlighten all of us.

    Sorry I missed that two months ago. I honestly thought it was common knowledge (I still do, as you will see in the articles below).

    Also, the idea that MLB had a “formal drug policy” in 1971, when they were not allowed to test players for them for another 35 years is comical.

    By the way, did you know that Barry Bonds failed a drug test for amphetamines? Bet you didn’t, because people want to ignore the fact that amphetamines are and were a PED that significantly helped players.

    #119906
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    Here are the first three articles that come up in a google search for “amphetamine use in baseball” (so I’m honestly shocked that you feel I’m coming out of left field, pun intended, on this):

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kreidler_mark&id=2225013

    people in and around baseball have been trying — almost routinely without success — to drag their use out into the light of day for years and years.

    The stimulants have been steadily mentioned ever since, too — but almost never by anyone in the midst of his career. A retired Tony Gwynn spoke openly of baseball’s amphetamine problem in 2003, estimating for The New York Times that 50 percent of position players were using them routinely, many of them before almost every game.

    #119907
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/4740/under-the-knife-amphetamines-and-baseball/

    The shadow of steroids may still hang dark over the game, but the key story of 2006 is likely to be amphetamines. Whether they’re obtained illegally (the fabled greenies, beans and uppers) or legally (various attention-deficit disorder drugs), amphetamines and similar performance-enhancing substances have penetrated the game in ways that steroids never came close to doing. During a recent discussion with a team staffer, I claimed that 75% of major-league players used banned amphetamines during the course of a season. “More,” was his immediate response.

    Remember When Everyone in the MLB Was Using Greenies?

    In an interview with Paul Lo Duca about his days with the Dodgers and other MLB teams, he said that most guys today would probably prefer greenies over steroids if given the choice. He reminisced on days when one pot of coffee in the clubhouse would be regular coffee and one would be loaded with greenies – all you needed was a shot of it to be good for the whole day. When one of the security guards at Dodger Stadium drank a cup of the wrong stuff, he turned red in the face and had to be taken to the hospital.

    If you think greenies went away in 1971, then it isn’t just ignorance, it is willful ignorance.

    #119918
    Avatargscottar
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    More wild accusations, this one aimed at La Russa. These guys that are saying this stuff had better be right or they could face legal trouble.

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28503160/jack-mcdowell-says-tony-la-russa-had-sign-stealing-system-white-sox-80s

    #119919
    Carter Le GrandCarter Le Grand
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    Remember pitcher Jack Mc Dowell? Played for the White Sox in ’87. He said on a recent radio show out of Charlotte N.C. that they had a camera set up in CF, ordered by….wait for it….Tony La Russa

    Why does that not surprise me? (and get me thinking)

    #119934
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    This is madness. I’m beginning to think that the best thing for baseball may be an “anything goes approach”. Anything legal that is. Secret and unsecret cameras everywhere trying to steal signs….players and coaches shouting out what pitch may be on it’s way to hulking roid riddled batters……pitchers openly lubing up balls on the mound with Vaseline…..Colorado(where it’s legal) Rockie players firing up dubbies in the dugout during the 7th inning stretch….what ever happened to “baseball, apple pie and Chevrolet”?

    #119935
    AvatarOnyxgem
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    He wasn’t even on the team when Tony was their coach either

    #119936
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    But but but he never played for LaRussa who was fired the season before. So how does he know LaRussa put it in and why was it still in and his mouth was kept shut. Phoney baloney. 2nd hand info from somebody looking for 15 more minutes of fame.

    #119959
    UConn CardUConn Card
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    McDowell comes across as someone who had an axe to grind with TLR.

    #119960
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    I really doubt that Altuve was wearing any kind of electronic device under his jersey. He is known to swing at darn near everything within a country mile of the plate. That is one reason pitchers don’t have an out pitch for him. Seems like a lot of garbage is going to be tossed about as a result of this ‘scandal’ including trying to drag TLR into it.

    #119961
    Carter Le GrandCarter Le Grand
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    I got the story from Mad Dog Russo who got it from ? and now you got it from me so it’s 3rd hand info (at best)

    But I believe anything I hear that’s negative about that lying bastage La Russa who to this day is the only man in baseball to know NOTHING about the Bash Brothers ‘roiding in the clubhouse!

    I like Pugsley’s plan with the vaseline, doobies and the rest, and how about putting roller skates on base runners with rope and grappling hooks to snag the bases?

    #119964
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    <CLG wrote: But I believe anything I hear that’s negative about that lying bastage La Russa who to this day is the only man in baseball to know NOTHING about the Bash Brothers ‘roiding in the clubhouse!>

    I was a Twins fans (lived in that area) in those days but the one thing I remember about it is that the stuff McGwire was taking was pictured sitting on a shelf in his open locker when he was doing an interview and, at the time, it was not illegal to use it. Baseball later outlawed it. The one thing I dislike about major league baseball is that the fans seem to love to disparage their heroes after they retire. The longer retired they more they are knocked. TLR has more pluses than minuses on my scorecard.

    #119965
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    Minuteman, that was androstenedione that they saw in his locker. And because the media and the public was so amazingly ignorant about steroids and other supplements, many used that to show he was using steroids. Andro was a (going from fading memory now) synthetic precursor to something that would, if converted in the body, act much like anabolic steroids. It was trash, and every study I saw showed it to be (I will quote Sheldon from Big Bang Theory) the ingredients for really expensive urine. It didn’t work at all.

    But the thing about them seeing that bottle which is funny to me, is that it was likely planted by McGwire – because anyone doing steroids wouldn’t be doing andro. It would make zero sense.

    But McGwire has admitted to using steroids, so it is all moot now.

    #119968
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    Roger Maris is still the homerun leader. Those others were cheating all along. I remember watching McGwire being interviewed and bawling like a baby during his admission. He, Sosa, Bonds et al, should be removed from the list. Maris did it on his own.

    #119971
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    Ahhh, that Puritan Brady Anderson Maris.

    #119980
    AvatarLACardFan
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    The Cardinals have known they were at a disadvantage and even discussed it

    Schildt on sign stealing

    #120044
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Cue every Houston Astro player/employee memorizing the ‘McGwire Defense’ word for word:

    https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/17/us-congressman-requests-oversight-hearing-sign-stealing

    #120057
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    If a House congressman wants to get into baseballs business in between their impeachment investigations, try looking at the minor league team disbandment that MLB is wanting to pursue. A congressional investigation into sign stealing is a total waste of taxpayer money, more than is being wasted now. I know there has been some letter writing between some Congressional members and MLB so let them pursue that.

    #120280
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    #120296
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Pretty stupid thing to do but then it was the LA City Council proposing this. How do they know that other teams were not affected by the cheating during the regular season or that the playoff teams they faced would not have won and BEAT the Dodgers. LA getting desperate for a trophy. Win it outright if you want it.

    #120509
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    News flash – Agent defends his clients…

Viewing 25 posts - 301 through 325 (of 621 total)
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