Houston Astros Stealing Signs

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  • #119806
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    I must say that I am a bit disappointed that on such as esteemed board as TCN, a board that has more than a few stat-meisters, nobody has yet posted stats that show the effect or possible effect of cheating in a way depicted by stats. You know something like games at home vs the road and individual players stats at home vs the road and stats on various off speed pitches at home. After all, MLB and baseball scribblers can forecast next seasons results almost by name and BA. But maybe I am rushing things – somebody may be developing a chart and a stat to show how trash can banging upped a players average by .002 points. I will say this without the benefit of any stat – a lot of players, Astros and others, can’t hit a low and away slider no matter how much you beat the hell out of a trash can.

    #119807
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    tripleshy – Get your hands on some steroids and try it for yourself. You’ll see.

    I’m not getting on here talking about what I have and haven’t done, but you seem to think that the movie the Program was a documentary. It was not. And it is even different for a baseball player.

    #119808
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
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    There also might be a few of us (I’m guilty) that want the punishment to be harsher due to it being the Astros and the Red Sox (two WS losses in the 21st century).

    Secondly, I’m guessing that if two teams have been publicly exposed in the past 6 months, that they are not the only teams doing some variation of it. However, our beloved Cardinals have never done it!

    #119809
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    If the Cardinals were being tipped on what pitches were coming this past season, then we are in trouble. We definitely had no clue in the NLCS. We looked like a drunk man trying to swat flies.

    #119812
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    MM3: Related to your question, I saw it somewhat addressed a couple days ago on MLBN. One person, don’t recall who, made a point that Astros’ hitters had a significantly higher take rate on off-speed pitches at home than they did on the road. I don’t recall the comparative numbers, but off-speed pitches tend to be out of the strike zone more than fastballs.

    And then when the off-speed stuff was in the zone, it gave their hitters a better opportunity to spoil off the good pitches. I remember they mentioned Gattis as an example of this.

    It’s an interesting point, but regardless if they benefited slightly, moderately, or greatly, I think the core issue remains unchanged.

    #119814
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    Secondly, I’m guessing that if two teams have been publicly exposed in the past 6 months, that they are not the only teams doing some variation of it. However, our beloved Cardinals have never done it!

    Well CFICT, there were the other 8 “named” teams in the investigation. It’ll be interesting to see if evidence comes forward to implicate others. Gotta be careful who you trade away. 😉

    I posted the quote below earlier in this thread. I was being serious.

    “How widespread is this really, on an institutional level? As they say, if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying. Who here attends Cards’ games regularly and do you hear bangs or whistles frequently in the bottom halves of innings?”

    #119816
    Avatargscottar
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    #119844
    AvatarOquendo11
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    10% of MLB managers lost their job this week.

    #119845
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    <mudville wrote:

    tripleshy – Get your hands on some steroids and try it for yourself. You’ll see>

    Not trying to butt in but I currently have steroid shots in both shoulders and two in my back but I don’t feel buzzed, just free of a lot of pain.

    #119846
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Not trying to butt in but I currently have steroid shots in both shoulders and two in my back but I don’t feel buzzed, just free of a lot of pain.

    Which is one of the huge benefits of steroids…quicker recovery from injuries and workouts so that muscles can be built up more quickly.

    #119847
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Beltran stepping down would seem to open new ground – a player taking a punishment. I haven’t read any stories but it may have been voluntary but if it gets into players then some of the heavy hitters may need to be looked at on the 2017 Houston and 2018 Red Sox teams.

    #119848
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    So the story seems to be getting even worse, as someone who is pretending to be Carlos Beltran’s niece on Twitter is alleging that the Astros wore electronic buzzers under their jerseys.

    Also, Jessica Mendoza today on ESPN showed that being an ESPN baseball analyst and Mets’ employee is a conflict of interest as she went after Mike Fiers for being the whistleblower.

    #119849
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    MM3, I don’t think Beltran had a choice:

    #119851
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Carlos Beltran’s statement is absolutely tone death. Not as tone death as Jeff Luhnow’s statement, but goodness it is up there:

    #119852
    Avatargscottar
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    Beltran stepping down would seem to open new ground – a player taking a punishment. I haven’t read any stories but it may have been voluntary but if it gets into players then some of the heavy hitters may need to be looked at on the 2017 Houston and 2018 Red Sox teams.

    Beltran “stepped down” because he was the only player mentioned in the report, other than the whistleblower. I am sure it was intentional that MLB singled Beltran out in the report. They must have concluded that his involvement in the scheme went above and beyond other players.

    Once the report came out with his name in it the Mets were on the clock to do something. Apparently they and Beltran came to a “mutual decision” that he had to go.

    #119855
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    They must have concluded that his involvement in the scheme went above and beyond other players.

    Maybe that’s part of it. Also, they might have been compelled to include Beltran because he had moved to a managerial position by the time of the investigation.

    #119857
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    We’re all sorry once we’ve been caught. And admitting guilt without qualifications is darn near impossible for most.

    #119858
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Here’s Jayston Stark’s take on why Beltran was the only player named:

    #119864
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    Not trying to butt in but I currently have steroid shots in both shoulders and two in my back but I don’t feel buzzed, just free of a lot of pain.

    That is a corticosteroid (likely cortisone), and that is very different from anabolic steroids. Very different effects on the body.

    Anabolic steroids, the type that mudville seems to be claiming to be an expert in, can give off a bit of euphoric feeling when starting your first cycle. Much like any new substance introduced in the body, this feeling wanes, and it certainly isn’t still going when you are in the batter’s box staring down the pitcher.

    Public perception of how anabolic steroids help baseball players has long been of great comedy to those who’ve been in the know of the players who’ve used them.

    The funny thing is that the effect that mudville describes sounds a lot more like the effect that greenies gave to players for decades. But we will never criticize those guys, because “amphetamines aren’t nearly as helpful as steroids.”

    #119867
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    <atriples wrote: The funny thing is that the effect that mudville describes sounds a lot more like the effect that greenies gave to players for decades.>

    Ahh greenies. Now you’re talking something I know a little bit of. A guy gave me some when we were studying for finals one year in college. Made me feel like I could study forever and still be sharp as a tack. With no sleep I aced 3 finals the next day and felt like going out and finding something to kill…LOL

    #119868
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    Have any left to send to an aging, yet still devastatingly attractive soul, Minuteman???

    #119869
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    Hey Pugs?

    I think during the high school baseball season this spring I am going to get me a lawn chair, bring my binoculars, a hammer, and a metal trash can and sit out just behind the CF fence and start banging away. Once, sometimes twice.

    I wonder what everybody will think about that?

    r/Esteemed Rat <~~~~trash can banger

    #119871
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Rats, I think you need to film it and share the results with the rest of us.

    #119872
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    I have no doubt that you would be the best trash can banger east of the Mississippi, Rat. Except for one thing. I think once you started wailing away on your trash can “once, sometimes twice” as you say, you would find it impossible not to use that as a lead in to go right into theme songs of some of your fav tv shows. I could see you banging out the theme song of ‘Streets of San Francisco’ for fastballs, ‘Mannix’ for offspeed stuff and maybe the theme tune of ‘Bonanza’ for an upcoming knuckler.

    #119873
    AvatarLACardFan
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    Oh boy, it keeps getting better, with more and more people announcing things….

    Stealing known since 2017; HGH?

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