2019 closer/relievers thread – Miller + ?

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  • #78062
    Cardinals27
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    I think it is a great move. It’s about time we try get the best players available. Sure, there is risk, but if healthy he is one of the best relievers in the game. Especially with the state of our current lefties. I wonder who what roster spot will change. Not sure if Reyes can be put on 60 day DL, or they will cut someone. I guess a trade is also possible.

    #78063
    stlcard25
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    Can we afford Gregerson the same confidence. If similarly aged guys have similar injuries, shouldn’t we be willing to bet that we could be adding two solid late arms. Gregerson has to be rehabbing like his career depends upon it.

    Gregerson and Miller are not in the same league as pitchers. One is a middle relief guy and the other has been one of the best high leverage arms in MLB for several years.

    That said, if Gregerson could be a solid middle reliever, it would be a big boost to the pen. His (lack of) velocity leaves him very little margin for error.

    #78064
    Cardinals27
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    I’d guess 3 years, 34 million.

    #78065
    Onyxgem
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    Free

    Huge risk here better not be for more than two years.

    #78066
    Nigel T
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    Paid - Three Months

    I fear the Phillies are pushing Britton into stupid money, and we have too many prospects we won’t deal. Three years is too risky, but a two year 30 million might be where that market stands. Guys are getting three years. The money for two years seems ridiculous until you subtract the value keeping Dakota Hudson or Jack Flaherty bring.
    If you were the Giants or Twins, you demand one of them because you only need guys better than what you currently have. Both teams have solid rotational pieces already in place.
    By the way, Gregerson has more saves than Miller (66 to 53), and Gregerson was brought in as a closer option. Injured Gregerson won’t make our roster. A healthy Gregerson brings the same expectations our FO expressed when we signed him.

    #78067
    stlcard25
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    The money for two years seems ridiculous until you subtract the value keeping Dakota Hudson or Jack Flaherty bring.
    If you were the Giants or Twins, you demand one of them because you only need guys better than what you currently have.

    There is no way in the world that any reliever on the Giants or Twins would fetch Hudson, much less Flaherty. If they ask for one of them, they’d be turned down immediately.

    #78068
    Nigel T
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    Paid - Three Months

    With the seemingly large number of minor league free agent pitchers on the Memphis roster, it seemed we were poised to trade some young arms.
    The other side may be that the two or three extra guys might be an attempt to hit on a hunch and make up for the recent drafts. If one or two guys develop, the effects of the drafts are lessened somewhat.

    #78069
    Nigel T
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    I agree, but getting Smith or Rogers for Gant, Helsley, or Ponce De Leon is a dream, too.

    Who is it then? To have talks, there has to be give and take. Other teams have 40 man roster issues also. They may not be too keen on the three for ones we dream on.

    The Giants have an All Star caliber closer with better stats than Britton or Miller. Do you believe they are dreaming on Gomber?

    #78070
    stlcard25
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    Smith is a one year rental whose stats have been better than Miller or Britton for one year. That’s it. 6 years of Gant, Ponce or Helsley would likely be an overpay. One of those and a B prospect would be more than fair.

    Flaherty or Hudson are legit front of the rotation talents. Maybe you get that for 4+ years of an elite closer but not one year of a good bullpen arm.

    #78071
    mudville
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    Nigel T Your sense of optimism is invigorating.

    #78072
    Ratsbuddy
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    Free

    I hope and pray this isn’t another Brett Cecil type signing.

    #78073
    Nigel T
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    Paid - Three Months

    I agree with everything you are saying. My point is there are no deals in place or rumored. It would appear that the teams in question value their players differently than you (and the Cardinals) do.

    The other issue is that teams are looking to add. There are free agents who will sign. That makes 40 man spots a situation where a two for one is really a two for two because the team would have to release a player. That brings us back to one for one or trading better prospects farther away from the big leagues.

    #78075
    Nigel T
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    Paid - Three Months

    My sense of optimism is fueled by a bullpen of Reyes, Hudson, and Hicks combining with Miller and one more of those we’ve mentioned in trades at the end. Leone or Gregerson would be icing. Gallegos seems to be another huge piece.

    #78076
    Nigel T
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    Paid - Three Months

    Of course Reyes and Hudson should start. I hope our rotation remains in tact so that those arms will be additions rather than replacements.

    #78077
    PadsFS
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    I don’t see why this is risky. Miller has a knee and hamstring issue last year. Granted Holland sliced his finger, but Miller is in a different league imo.

    The perfect addition to our bullpen.

    #78078
    PadsFS
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    Reyes and Hudson should start until needed.

    #78080
    stlcard25
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    I’ve got more of a feeling that Reyes will be in the bullpen for much of 2019. Which would make for a very good pen, potentially.

    I agree that all teams value players and prospects differently, Nigel. It will be interesting to see what if any more moves the Cards will make.

    #78082
    Nigel T
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    We seemingly will have to make a big deal with all the arms and outfielders we have. Unfortunately our dreams could end up with two or three Matt Adams type trades at the end of Spring.
    I personally spend way too much personal time and energy concocting huge Cardinal blockbusters in my mind. It brings me countless hours of joy.

    #78087
    Cardinals2016
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    Free

    I don’t see why this is risky. Miller has a knee and hamstring issue last year.

    You left out the “shoulder impingement”

    #78091
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    #78099
    Bob Reed
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    I’d have preferred trading for someone younger or healthier or ideally both. Lefty or righty reliever, I don’t care.

    But hey, you never know what exactly teams are asking for in trade. And Miller was of course magnificent until 2018. From 2014-2017 his worst year was 2015 when he threw 61 innings with a 2.04 ERA.

    And there’s an argument that even his massively disappointing 2018 season wasn’t really as bad as the numbers initially make it look, as the 4.24 ERA was a distortion created by a couple of awful outings. Take away his best two games and his worst two, and his season ERA was 2.76, with a 41-to-13 K/BB in 29.1 IP.

    I’d rather have David Robertson at the same price, as he’s also murder on lefty hitters and has tossed at least 60 innings for 9 straight years. But maybe Robertson wants to play in the A.L., or likes the east coast. Who knows?

    But I must admit that nobody — not Robertson or Kimbrel or Britton or anyone available in trade — offers a greater potential upside than Andrew Miller.

    Now go get Yusei Kikuchi, Mo, plus one more excellent reliever. That would make the Cards division co-favorites. At least.

    #78101
    jj-cf-stl
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    I wasn’t expecting one of miller / britton, thought we were window shopping. Pleasantly surprised.

    Still want david robertson for the 9th.

    #78103
    TexasCard
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    Free

    This move is a huge risk. He’s been used hard the last five seasons and last year he physically started to break down. His age is a concern. There is no question his four years before last season were lights out but I’m not sure he is capable of getting back to that point. Its BDW’s money to spend so…just seems like another head scratching use of big dollars that could have been allocated elsewhere. We shall see and I hope I’m wrong.

    #78104
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Every single possible move has risk. As noted above, you have to consider the upside as well. The risk here is medical. If you haven’t already, check the story at the link in my article, which has more details about the exam he went through recently. Not that it would help the team on the field, but I imagine in a case like this, the Cards may get at least partial insurance on the contract. Premiums are high, I am told.

    #78111
    stlcard25
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    Its BDW’s money to spend so…just seems like another head scratching use of big dollars that could have been allocated elsewhere.

    TC, where else would you have preferred to see the money go?

    The bullpen last year was as awful as you could imagine. It probably cost this team the division, let alone the wild card. I saw a stat that Miller’s 0.4 fWAR, his worst year since becoming a reliever, was just shy of the Cards’ 0.5 fWAR from the entire bullpen. Now, maybe you don’t trust the stats but still, money spent trying to improve the pen is probably the best way to spend money right now, with an above average offense and rotation.

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