2019 closer/relievers thread – Miller + ?

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum 2019 closer/relievers thread – Miller + ?

This topic contains 259 replies, has 35 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Bob Reed 10 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 260 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #76490
    Avatar
    bccran
    Participant

    Is it better for Reyes to break in slowly to the rotation, or pitch at the back end of the pen for awhile like Waino did?

    Just need that lock down lefty.

    Here are the WHIPs from last year –

    Ponce – 1.121
    Ross – 1.139
    Brebbia – 1.16
    Norris – 1.249
    Reyes – 1.250 (only 4 innings)
    Hicks – 1.339
    Hudson – 1.354
    Mayers – 1.432
    Webb – 1.435
    Leone – 1.458
    Gomber – 1.507
    Shreve – 1.568
    Gregerson – 1.579
    Bowman – 1.739
    Sherriff – 1.765
    Lyons – 1.920
    Cecil – 1.959
    Holland – 2.240

    Right side of the pen should probably be okay with Brebbia, Hicks, Hudson, Ponce, and Leone.
    Maybe Reyes in the closer role. Gallegos is a talent to feed in.

    Need to do whatever we can to jettison Cecil and Gregerson.

    Just need a strong LOOGY.

    p.s. I really felt sorry for Matheny with that bullpen. It cost him is job.

    #76492
    Avatar
    Cardinals2016
    Participant

    Free

    Let’s put it this way folks, look at their current depth chart.

    Their relief corps, which was worse than the Cardinals last year, has 4 relievers with sub 4.0 ERA’s and 4 relievers with greater than 5.0 ERA’s. The only reliever they have that had a sub 3.0 ERA last year was Rogers.

    In addition to CJ Cron’s .812 OPS last year, they also have Willians Asutdillo, who managed a paltry .887 OPS in 97 plate appearances with 3 strikeouts.

    Now, Astudillo is currently penciled in as their 3B, which he plays about as well as JMart plays 1B (his defensive value came from catching).

    So, why trade your best reliever for a cost-controlled DH when you already have one?

    If anything, I would think they are going to sign a Mike Moustakas or Derek Dietrich to be their 3B. I also think they will be looking to upgrade their relief corps.

    They’ve already signed CJ Cron, Jonathan Schoop and Ronald Torreyes in free agency this year.

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by Avatar Cardinals2016.
    #76624
    Avatar
    bccran
    Participant

    Britton?

    #76761
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    DeWitt Jr. was asked by Bernie about the pen. He singled out Leone, Reyes and Ponce de Leon among returnees who have upside (my word, not his). He also acknowledged they are looking for external help. DeWitt called Helsley “one of his guys” he has been watching for years and asks about in meetings.

    He is not going to Winter Meetings, and noted most owners do not. He said that there is “a lot of sitting around waiting” while there and now that Goldschmidt is done, he decided not to go.

    #76766
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I feel fairly positive about guys like Leone and Reyes as well. It makes me sad that Reyes may never get a chance to start due to that arm, but maybe he can take the Andrew Miller route of top starting prospect-turned dominant bullpen arm.

    #76769
    Avatar
    bccran
    Participant

    Or Reyes could take the Waino path of back of the pen stud then converting back to a starter.

    #76773
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Or Reyes could take the Waino path of back of the pen stud then converting back to a starter.

    Of course he could. But it’s a bit of a warning sign that they were confident that he’d be ready by spring training and now they’re throwing the brakes on and saying he will come back as a reliever. It doesn’t sound like the Cmart situation where they legitimately felt relief was the best short term option.

    To be sure, I think people are underestimating the impact Reyes in the bullpen could make. His control was coming around last year even, the strikeout stuff has always been there…it could be like adding another Kimbrel or Miller to the pen without the big cost outlay (although I’d still like Miller or Britton if they could be had for 2 years or if the 3 years comes at $8-9 million per year).

    #76776
    Avatar
    bccran
    Participant

    Agree 100%, 25. Reyes could be the in house lock down closer and give Hicks a year to mature into that role as Reyes gets ready to move back into the top of the rotation in 2020.

    #76782
    Avatar
    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Counting on Reyes for anything is fools choice IMHO.Yes it would be great to see him come back at 100% but until he actually is able to do such a thing then anything from him is jut gravy.Right now production from Reyes is wishful thinking.I like the kid and really hope he can return at top form but you just can`t count on that.

    #76783
    Avatar
    bccran
    Participant

    They still have Hicks, Ponce, and Leone, even if you don’t count on Reyes.

    #76791
    Avatar
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Some of our internal options may elevate themselves into the discussion for closer eventually but there is probably a zero % chance we don’t add someone from the outside this winter and it very well could happen this week.

    #76798
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Counting on Reyes for anything is fools choice IMHO.Yes it would be great to see him come back at 100% but until he actually is able to do such a thing then anything from him is jut gravy.Right now production from Reyes is wishful thinking.I like the kid and really hope he can return at top form but you just can`t count on that.

    We could have made the playoffs if we had counted on Reyes in 2018. (No Holland would have been 3-4 more wins).

    #76933
    Avatar
    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly
    #76947
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Mo mentions Carlos in the closer mix!

    http://cardinalsbestnews.blogspot.com/2018/12/video-john-mozeliak-on-cardinals-closer.html?m=1

    This is the worst possible news. The Cards should be looking to trade Carlos ASAP. There is 0 reason to spend the money they have invested in him to be a reliever.

    #76950
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Just to consider the flip side, Martinez makes $11.5 million per year. Is that a lot for a top closer in MLB? Honestly, I do not understand why his salary would be a consideration, either way.

    Here is how I see it. They have a lot of starters and no closer. Neither Hicks nor Hudson are ready. Martinez did well in the role late last season. (It may have something to do with the need to be ready and focused each day, but that is just a theory of mine.) Anyway, I find that he is an option to close encouraging – at this point. If they sign or acquire a closer in trade, then the situation changes.

    P.S. Because of his value, I would be against trading Martinez just for the sake of trading him. He would have to get something big in return, but if the rumors are correct, the Cards are not looking to make another big trade. Trading him for prospects like they did with Pham would signal they just want him gone.

    #76955
    jj-cf-stl
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Free

    I prefer reyes in the pen next season, but not as closer. Rather he floated and put out fires anywhere between the starter to the end of the game.

    60 to 80 IP in 19′, as a stepping block back to the rotation.

    #76957
    Avatar
    Cardinals2016
    Participant

    Free

    Right now, when Reyes comes back, I would piggy back him and Wacha.

    Reyes throws 4 innings, Wacha throws five.

    #76958
    Avatar
    bccran
    Participant

    Cards actually seem to have some pretty good potential on the right side now with Hicks, Brebbia, Hudson, Leone, Ponce, Gant, Gallegos, and Meisinger. The left side remains very weak.

    #76960
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    jj-cf-stl, that seems reasonable to me. But if Reyes comes back blazing like he did in his 2018 rehabs, they would have to avoid the temptation to put him in the rotation. If the current starters are doing well at the point Reyes is ready, the temptation would be less.

    #76971
    jj-cf-stl
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Free

    If blazing then we want him available for the postseason.

    Start in the pen, say first half, step in for a DL SP’r when that happens, and you’re not spiking his IP real bad.

    Protects him and postseason availability.

    #76973
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Just to consider the flip side, Martinez makes $11.5 million per year. Is that a lot for a top closer in MLB? Honestly, I do not understand why his salary would be a consideration, either way.

    That’s fine, if you consider him a top closer. That’s a bit of a leap, IMO. Now is that good value for an average closer? Probably not.

    His value to the Cards and in a trade is predicated on him being a starter. If some team is willing to bet on him remaining a starter, then I’m all for maxing out his trade value. The White Sox have long known to like him. Maybe they could get Eloy Jiminez? Minnesota for Kiriloff? The Yankees for one of their better prospects?

    If he’s going to languish in the bullpen, I’d rather have the trade value. But then again, I’ve always had high hopes for Carlos and think he’s been better than the naysayers give him credit for.

    #76977
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    stlcard25, we will just have to agree to disagree. I do not consider being the closer to fill an obvious need on a playoff-contending club “languishing”.

    If you look at Martinez’ actual numbers as the closer, they were very, very, very good. In fact, much better than his 2018 numbers as a starter.

    2-0, 1.47 ERA, 5-of-5 in save ops, four holds, .177 batting average against, 9.3 K per nine, 12 of 15 first batters retired, 0-of-6 inherited runners scored. All rate numbers are better than his starting results.

    What part of those results are leading you to suggest he is/will be an “average closer”?

    P.S. I am not down on Martinez, but it seems like you are in any role other than starting. I just see he may be able to help the team in several different ways. He has demonstrated to my satisfaction that he has considerable worth as both a starter and closer – and I like the flexibility it gives the team, especially at a time when the overall staff and pitching plans are still in flux.

    #76981
    Avatar
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    #76996
    Avatar
    thejager
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    loving the Will Smith interest

    I am glad Austudillo came up….i really like him and Rogers as targets for us

    Willian gives us our backup catcher….AND he is a super utility catcher at that, who makes crazy contact and doesnt strike out

    add in Rogers who is a beast for lefties and you are set to go with a Will Smith trade too

    I figure the Giants want some young pitching and maybe an OFer…we can do that

    Minny is a prime place for JMart (as they are looking at Cruz it is reported which means they seem to consider Cron a 1bman as much as a DH)….what else do we have to do to get Rogers and add Willian? I think Wacha might have some interest with Minny…and maybe Gyorko

    If we arent going to do anything about RF and give it to Fowler and ONeill then use the farm to answer the bell everywhere else as the old injured lefties are wanting too much

    If we really feel like we still need to spend some money…then get Kikuchi or go big on Kimbrel or even both even we need to move Wacha

    how about this going forward?
    CMart, Mik, Kikuchi, Jack, Waino/Hudson/Reyes/kids
    Kimbrel, Smith, Rogers, Hicks, Leone, Brebbia, Mayers, Gallegos/Gregerson
    Carp,DeJong,Goldy,Ozuna,Yadi,Fowler/Oneill,Bader,Wong
    Astudillo,Munoz,Oneill/Fowler,Wisdom/Urias

    #77000
    Avatar
    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Rumor says Kikuchi really likes SF.
    Why would Twins give up years of control in Taylor Rogers .They would have to be blown away by the trade offer.
    Reyes likely will be eased back into bullpen when and if he is ready
    Will Smith isn`t here yet. It would be nice but another 2019 Free agent?
    Kimbrel wants big dollars and leong contract.If Cards won`t spend on Harper why would they spend on a older BP guy with declining velocity and the Cards past record of failed bullpen signing.Gunshy IMHO.
    Astudillo…..I think Cards want a more veteran backup. (Rob Brantly,Pena,Carlois Perez etc;)

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 260 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

First-hand news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals™ and their minor league system for 20 years