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Mo said “if there’s something that could impact the future” it will be a “collaborative effort” – mlbtr
The win now trades should be gone. Why acquire a rental now? Patching a hole after trades, sure. Temp help belongs to Mo, I can see that.
Any and all transactions by August 1st, that affect 26′ and beyond …..
I’m not seeing any conspiracy theories. It would be a shame to find out management and ownership is so dysfunctional they have individual agendas. That would be final straw territory for me.
It may not be agendas. It could just be simple disagreement. Seeing things differently happens even in the best run companies.
Of course, this is all theoretical.
BDW would be extremely foolish to side with the guy who is leaving and against the guy who will be staying and running things. My thinking is, so long as he is within the financial parameters, Bloom wins all the disagreements by virtue of BDW’s tiebreaking vote. For instance, when trading off an expiring contract, the guy leaving does not affect 2026, but what comes back does, so if there is disagreement, Bloom wins.
That makes sense, bling. But it is also fair to note that the Cards have far less control over who is offered to them than who they offer.
If they were to do a complete rebuild for next year 2026, could look something like:
Catcher……..Pages/Crooks/Bernal maybe at some point
1st Base…..Burleson/Gorman
2nd Base…..Donovan/Weatherholt/Fermin
Shortstop….Winn/Weatherholt
3rd Base…..Gorman/Weatherholt/Donavan
DH…………………..Herrera, SaggeseOutfield…..Scott, Nootbar, Walker, Burleson, Church Maybe, Baez might be an option at some point
They are really low on players in the Outfield it seems at MLB and AAA, and really just Baez at AA, who has had a bounce back year
Starting Pitching
Gray
Libertorre
McGreevy
RobyBullpen
Pallante
Graceffo
O’Brien
Roycroft
Granillo
Leahy
Romero
Svanson
Zack Thompson if he can get healthy would be another LH option– Would need a 5th starter in trades (Hence and Mathews would be options if can stay healthy)
– Need some outfielders that can hit
– 1st base is a little shaky as well…
– Bullpen will need some arms
– Probably missed some other optionsI like it Ghost. Have to offload Contreras and Arenado. There’s some who will hate it. I think it’s the only way to crawl back to relevance. ’28.
I don’t understand how cutting veterans will help the team in the long run. Trading them and getting salary relief may help if the team is willing to pay up later for their savings today. I can’t imagine anyone giving up anything for Arenado right now and Contreras is only slightly more valuable. Our 3B and 1B prospects are pretty much non existent. Wetherholt has not played any 3B, so I think we can eliminate him from contention there.
Amen stl25. Thank you for saying that.
I have said all along that if team cratered I would join Team Sell. Well we are cratering so there you go. I have no problem dispatching expiring contract guys like Helsley and Maton because they have no future here anyway. Mikolas might as well be DFA’d now. I don’t know what upside there is to keeping him. The team is going to have to pay all of his salary whether he stays or goes so all he is doing now is getting shelled every fifth day and preventing a youngster from getting some innings.
They can try to trade Arenado if they want to. They won’t get much backand he would have to approve it. We have already seeon one what a headache that can be. Contreras and Gray have never given any indication that they would waive their NTC’s. At least not publicly. I could see Noot as a potential trade chip since Donovan could be moved to LF and that would free up 2B for Weatherholt next year.
Where I differ from some others is trading productive players with multiple years of control. That being guys like Donovan, Burly, Herrera, or Winn. I would be very hesitant to trade guys like that. The only way I consider it is if we are getting major league ready players back in return. If it is just prospects then pushes the competetive window back further and further. If we are really counting on Gorman and Walker to be everyday players next year then that is just depressing.
I hope we don’t end up like the Brewers, selling off “high value” consistently 😀
The Brewers do tend to trade high value players but not when they have multiple years of control remaining. They usually do it before the final year of arbitration.
The other thing to consider is that are they really winning those trades? According to Fangraphs here are the annual farm system rankings for the Brewers the last few years:
2024-17th
2023-21st
2022-16th
2021-21st
2020-25thIt is hard to pinpoint how the Brewers keep winning every year. Despite changing PBO’s, changing managers, changing multiple players, and having lowly rated farm systems, they just keep winning. They have somehow created a winning culture and they must be really good at turning average prospects into very good major league players. They always seem to have a pretty good pitching staff. That is a start.
Where I differ from some others is trading productive players with multiple years of control. That being guys like Donovan, Burly, Herrera, or Winn.
I agree.
If you keep doing that, you end up in a state of perpetual rebuild.
It’s frustrating to see people constantly saying to trade Donovan, because he will be 30 when he becomes a free agent.
MLB Players >>>> prospects
If you want a contending team, you keep Donovan. If Wetherholt claims 2B next year, move Donovan back to LF and Nootbaar back to RF. Then, the Cardinals actually have an outfield next year.
When Donovan reaches his final year of control, then you trade him, slap a QO on him, or extend him to a sensible deal.
Have to offload Contreras and Arenado.
Yet again you forget about the NTC both have and one has made it clear he wants to stay. The other has a list and even if that list was solid it appears his allegiances are a bit flexible.
Now I’m not saying Nado can’t be dealt. It seems we are going to have to eat more salary than what we want to and then prospect load would be minimal. The Yankees had some interest but they were more interested in flipping contracts and us eating money. So much so that the team didn’t even go to Nolan with the offer because it wasn’t to their liking. So it sort of works both ways. Unless both get what they want. Then no deal is happening.
Yet again you forget about the NTC both have and one has made it clear he wants to stay.
I haven’t forgotten about it. Just because they have it doesnt mean you can’t trade them with their approval. Mo just hasn’t been able to make a deal that works for both parties. I have my doubts he can or will. They probably will still be here the rest of the year. On the other hand, i have serious doubts Bloom will start next season with either of those guys on the roster. Whatever that takes. Financial incentive to accept a deal or threat to be part time players.
LA, who are our starting pitchers next year? I see 4 currently.
As for Donovan, he would not be my first choice to trade but, if he had to be traded to get a GOOD fifth SP, I would not have a problem trading him. He has 2 years before becoming a free agent or needing to be signed to an extension. How long and how much money would a realistic extension be? Does he become another Matt Carpenter or Mikolas in the final years of that extension?
Better to trade a year too early rather than a year too late.
Donovan will be post prime and expensive by the time the Cardinals might be able to contend. But,meanwhile, they have to put enough of a team on the field to sell some tickets. His versatility and productivity goes a long way toward that end. I will be surprised if he is traded before he gets too expensive..
The Mariners still line up with the Cards for a trade, pitching for hitting. If Donovan or Nootbaar could get us a George Kirby or Bryce Miller as an upside bet, I would do it. OF help is the cheapest upgrade out there and we have Donovan’s best position covered going forward with JJ.
Future Donovan salaries likely won’t include a slg% premium, whomever is paying. His BA/OBP should hold up fine if he were extended short term.
If I were an MLB GM shopping at the Cardinals store I would be hard pressed to find much I’d want to spend my money on or trade anything of real value for.
I agree. I would be willing to trade just about anyone on the major league roster. It seems to me to a lot of posters, have Donavan/Burleson are the best position players we have. Unfortunately, to me, the are AT BEST options 3, 4 or 5 on a good team or 4, 5 or 6 on a great team.
We are desperate for an influx of talent on the offensive side. Especially a power bat. I see hope on the pitching front and don’t mind keeping Gray as a mentor to the young guns as they come up
I don’t see DeWitt parting with $$$ to get rid of Arenado or Mikolas. Matz maybe. Probably not Oli either…
Also a question, since it doesn’t include $ signs, is Mo the worst GM of all time selecting who to keep or trade from the minor leagues? Seems to me we have made a few bad trades of minor leaguers over the last few years. (A few being A LOT!)
As to the original question:
Will Ollie be retained? Probably yes, but hasn’t shown a reason why.
Will Flores continue the draft position. Not without a better onderstanding of our philosophy. This year seemed to be a break from the HIGH FLOOR, LOW CEILING of past drafts. (Bloom?)
What further player development changes will occur? Hopefully a lot.
Will we become more aggresive in international markets I hope so. Not a fan of the spread the wealth over 20 guys instead of reaching for the moon on 2 or 3.
Will we go after high dollar free agents. Doubtful…
25, Kirby, Miller, Woo are the exact level of pitcher that I was considering when stating that I would trade Donovan for a GOOD pitcher. Someone with a high ceiling and several years of team control. I would make that trade. Wetherholt looks like he could be ready next year. Gorman, Saggese and Fermin can hold down 2nd until Wetherholt is ready.
When it comes to weighing which guys to keep, trade, and offer contracts extending into their free agent years, track record is everything. So let’s take a look.
Career WAR-per-600 plate appearances, per Baseball-Reference:
Masyn Winn 3.5
Donovan 3.4
Noot 3.1
Herrera 3.0
Gorman 1.5
Burly 0.9Same, but for 2025 only:
Donovan 3.8
Winn 3.7
Herrera 3.5
Burly 2.7
Noot 2.1
Gorman 0.3Now, averaging the two:
Donovan 3.6
Winn 3.6
Herrera 3.3
Noot 2.6
Burly 1.8
Gorman 0.9I say make contract offers to Donovan, Winn, and Herrera that take them at least two years into free agency — with a year or two being club options for flexibility. Keep Noot, trade Burly as his value will very likely never be as high again and he’s too one-dimensional of a contributor to ever be a core player on a good MLB team. Gorman (and Walker) I’d listen to reasonable offers but not actively sell at this point, as you’d be getting 20 cents on the dollar.
But realistically, the club won’t start winning 90 games again until they replace the top three on the MLB managing/coaching staff.
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