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If we start trading our good hitters who are under contract for at least the next couple of years for prospects that may never do anything we are more likely to wake up in 2028 and realize we are lot closer to the Rockies than we are a contender! Just my opinion though! Hopefully we don’t give the right thing whatever it is on July 31! I guess time will tell!
I tbink trading helsley makes a lot of sense unless the cardinals plan on resigning him which will take lots of money. Trading arenado makes a lot of sense but i dont see anyone wanting or giving up anything good. He messed up when he turned down astros trade. Really the cardinals arent in a good position. I think the core long time or most of them like me anyway would be fine if they get rid of some decent players for possibly better younger prospects which would probably mean a couple more down seasons but a lot of people like being marginal every season. So we will see.
It appears we have some hitters coming in Wetherholt and maybe Church. Also, a few others look like they might be getting closer to their abilities. However, without pitching, they won’t get too far in the postseason. If our pitching in the minors prove they are ready for the majors late next year, I would rather trade Liberatore after ’26 or buyout Gray if he is slipping.
If we traded Gray right now we might actually be able to get a top 5 pitching prospect! Maybe Helsley would bring a top 10 pitching prospect! I really think the kids we have on the farm are going to be the pitching answer but I don’t know when tbey will be ready for MLB! McGreevey is ready right now!
I agree that trading Gray could bring something good. However, he doesn’t want to waive his NTC the way it sounds so he is off the board for trading.
McGreevy should be starting ahead of Fedde or Mikolas.
I don’t know Sonny Gray but if we were to set up a trade with someone like Detroit where he would probably be there number 2 with a chance to win it all he might change his mind! Never know until you ask! He is the piece we could get the most for imo! I also think the Yankees might give more than normal for Arenado! Tbey desperately need a third baseman for the rest of the year! Hopefully we can convince these two to go and play for a ring somewhere!
I get the Pozo offensive numbers. But he’s being used sparingly in situations that fit him well. When he starts, he doesn’t do as well. The other day he was swinging at sliders 2 feet off the plate again and again. Also, he’s been really bad at throwing out runners and not great at blocking. We already have all that in Herrera. Therefore, Pozo is redundant.
The point of the deadline is that demand becomes higher than ever for impact players. You use that demand to drive the price up. Demand doesn’t increase for Gorman or Walker because they aren’t impact players today that can be relied on. No playoff team is going to overpay for them. They are worth the same as last month. Teams will want Maton because his salary is ultra low and he’s been great. He might be our biggest trade chip amongst the pitchers. Helsley fetches a decent trade chip as well, but not as big because a team still has to eat the rest of his salary and he hasn’t been better than Maton. Even if Gray were to agree to go, the Cardinals still owe him around $10 million this year plus $35 million next year plus a buyout for the year after. That contract is now way underwater so only the huge spenders might take that on unless the Cardinals are willing to eat a bunch of it. Fedde may be worth nothing now. Matz could be dealt, but because he’s still owed like $5 million, he’s not going to return much. Pozo can be dealt because the Cardinals have Crooks ready to take his place and we might as well cash in on Pozo who has been a flash in the pan. Still, he’s not going to be worth a whole lot. The prizes the Cardinals have to dangle are their hitters – Donovan, Herrera, Contreras, and Burleson. Contreras has a NTC. So if we are going to reap the value of the deadline, it has to be one of the other 3. That’s the only way we are getting starting pitching talent back. I think Donovan is the heart and soul of the team and I don’t believe the team is willing to deal Herrera. Burleson is the one we least need. He doesn’t really have a full time position. That’s why he goes.
Bloom isn’t going to get rid of min wage guys just to get rid of them. Do we have somebody in AAA better than Burleson to fill the roster slot?
jnevel said:
Helsley fetches a decent trade chip as well, but not as big because a team still has to eat the rest of his salary and he hasn’t been better than Maton.
I don’t disagree with most of what you said in your post, but I think you are undervaluing Helsley.
To get a top closer, taking on roughly the third of his $8.2 million salary remaining is not going to be a problem for a contender. Despite recent numbers and a higher salary, he is more desirable than Maton, IMO.
I don’t think top teams that are going for October success are as salary conscious as are the Cardinals.
IMO, it is time to sell. However, there are NTC’s that may prevent moving some players. Also, I do not want the club to rush prospects to the majors as they have done in the past … this approach did not work out well for some of the younger players on the major league club (e.g. Walker, Gorman) … it is not easy to develop your skill set at the major league level.
Position Players:
1. I would be shocked to see Arenado agree to waive his NTC. He clearly is on the decline offensively and I cannot see him agreeing to go to a major market and face a tough press corps the next two seasons.
2. Shop Nootbar. Guy has trouble posting and his statistics are on a downward trend over the past three seasons.
3. Shop Siani – you will not get much – maybe there is a club that needs a good defensive outfielder.
4. Shop Baker – you will not get much – there is a log jam around 1B and maybe there is a club that is willing to take flyer on Luken.Pitchers:
1. Shop Helsley, Matz and Mouton – all three are on expiring contacts and there will be interest. The Redbirds shoud be able to get value for each of these with Helsey garnering the most value.
2. Shop Romero – I imagine there will be interest and he becomes a free agent in 2027. You could get value as a club is purchasing the remainder of this year and next.
3. Shop Mikolas and Fedde – I would be surprised if there is any interest. Not sure you get much back for either due performancue and limited duration of time left on their contracts. If there are no takers, Fedde should be moved to the pen or offered a stint at Memphis to get things straightened out.You may be right there Brian. Maton has been more effective recently and has the added bonus of costing almost nothing but Helsley has a long track record of being good at closing out games. They both are valuable pieces (with inflated deadline value) that should be moved. Any contender would likely want either or both of them.
Romero would also be in this discussion too but his contract has another year on it and unless the Cardinals find a lefty reliever in a trade, they still need Romero. But if someone is willing to way overpay, then he may be shipped out.
Arb classes for 2026, which will need tendered, and future service time with a full season in 2025.
Arb3:
Romero 5.045Arb2:
King 4.145
Nootbaar 4.076
Donovan 4.000Arb1:
Pallante 3.145
Gorman 3.114
Burly 3.029Super2:
Liberatore 2.144Well if we start shipping off our high value guys I will ask once again since it was not answered, when does our competitive window start? Becuase if we trade our productive players for prospects then we are kicking the can down the road even further. I think our fanbase deserves to know that.
Mo is still in charge and his track record is established. So the deadline trades should not be very surprising. However, what happens in the upcoming offseason is definitely crystal ball territory.
I believe it still starts in ‘26 GScottar but I realize I’m the only one here that is confident in Walker for next season. I’d like to see Gorman play 3B everyday as well, but I’ve always been less confident with him. Wetherholt and Crooks will be there too most likely. Scott will be a little better and Winn probably will be too. I had them around 85 wins this season. If I were picking today, I think they’ll be better than that next season but there are so many changes still to come that it’s hard to predict yet. I do know that they desperately need a good reliable starting pitcher in either a trade or a free agent signing.
You need blue font there JJ.
G you ask a good question. My answer is based 100% on opinion. Unless ownership spends it doesnt matter if you keep them all. They won’t be competitive next year and 27′ is in peril because of looming labor strife. We all know they aren’t going to spend. 28. That’s my answer.
The Brewers are the envy of the world right now. Spend little and win big. If everyone knew their secret then the other 29 teams would be doing it. It is like those 7 people in the world who know the formula to Coca Cola.
But we do have to fill out a roster next year right? If we are counting on Gorman and Walker God help us.
I understand your thoughts Jnevel. However, if the Redbirds are sellers I would think that Mo may end up being the front man in name only. I read that Mo was quoted earlier this year as saying that the transition will start in August. I would think that ownerhip would ask to move that transition date forward as the franchise looks towards the future. I would want Bloom heavily involved in trade discussions and talent evaluation. Next year is effectively starting now and I certainly hope that ownership will not want a lame duck making personnel decisions that will effect the 2026 Roster.
Mo said at the beginning of the year that all decisions that affect anything beyond’25 will involve Bloom.
“Involved” has quite a range of possible meanings, doesn’t it? When a tie has to be broken, which way will it go? To the guy in charge now, or the guy in charge next year?
If I take that literally, trading off any of the impending free agents would not affect 2026 in terms of players leaving. So Mo could be on his own with them, but I would expect him to discuss with others, as always.
Let’s not forget that “others” always ends with BDW Jr. That isn’t going to change with a new guy as PBO.
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