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As a refresher this is the up-to-date TCN 1-50 rankings.
Rk New top 50
1 Dylan Carlson
2 Nolan Gorman
3 Matthew Liberatore
4 Elehuris Montero
5 Andrew Knizner
6 Ivan Herrera
7 Jordan Walker
8 Zack Thompson
9 Jake Woodford
10 Angel Rondon
11 Junior Fernandez
12 Masyn Winn
13 Genesis Cabrera
14 Jhon Torres
15 Malcom Nuñez
16 Johan Oviedo
17 Justin Williams
18 Trejyn Fletcher
19 Tink Hence
20 Edmundo Sosa
21 Luken Baker
22 Kodi Whitley
23 Julio Rodriguez
24 Alvaro Seijas
25 Griffin Roberts
26 Tony Locey
27 Mateo Gil
28 Andre Pallante
29 Jack Ralston
30 Alex FaGalde
31 Ian Bedell
32 Alec Burleson
33 Justin Toerner
34 Seth Elledge
35 Levi Prater
36 Evan Mendoza
37 Delvin Perez
38 Rangel Ravelo
39 Steven Gingery
40 Edgar Escobar
41 Conner Capel
42 Tommy Parsons
43 Brendan Donovan
44 Juan Yepez
45 Evan Kruczynski
46 John Nogowski
47 Pedro Pages
48 Francisco Justo
49 Max Schrock
50 Kramer RobertsonMLB included Kim, Thomas, Edwin Nunez, Burleson, and Elledge in their Top 30. (IMO, Burleson should not be ranked ahead of Roberts.)
MLB did not rank Helsley.
The Community did not rank Thomas.
Baker, Seijas, Pallante, Ralston, and Roberts did not make the MLB Top 30.The Community did not rank Thomas.
I believe that was due to an early snafu with the voting criterion of who was eligible vs not.
There is some confusion here about who ranked Thomas and who did not.
BA has included Thomas all along, but MLB has NOT included Thomas, even back to this past off-season. Others who joined us in taking Thomas off their lists last winter include Keith Law/The Athletic, Prospects Live, Baseball Prospectus and BaseballHQ.
The only other major prospect rater who kept Thomas on for this year on that I am aware of is Fangraphs.
So while it may have been a little bumpy getting there, what the community decided here was consistent with the majority. No apologies are warranted.
For those misssimg some info on prospects that are part of the 60:
https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2020/7/29/21344836/rediscovering-patrick-romeri
Its a good read and points out that Romeri may be the guy to rise to the top of his potential.
While I knew Joey Zanaboni casually in his dual role of broadcaster and media relations for JC, I did not know him like this. I hope his next job is a good one, but it is going to be tough next season for many to find chairs to sit in.
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/better-know-a-broadcaster-joey-zanaboni/
So I’m tracking MLB.com, TCN, FanGraphs and Baseball America have updated post-draft rankings. I plugged those into the spread sheet and below is what I come up with for average order. As a reminder I prefer to use the simple average divided by the number of lists they made. It gives some weight to being on more lists. Because their are only four updated lists there isn’t a lot of difference. The exceptions are Edwin Nunez (Int’l signing with 100+ FB), Ricardo Sanchez, and Patrick Romeri (+16 spots +9 spots and -10 spots). So bottom line these are ranked by average “expert” ranking (I used MLB.com prospect rules so Knizner, Thomas, etc… aren’t on the list). I have 123 names and a ton of data, including my own formula (based on my scoring of ceiling, probability, performance, age for league, level, and injury risk) so if you have questions about a particular prospect not on the list its possible I have him on my spreadsheet somewhere.
1 Dylan Carlson
2 Nolan Gorman
3 Matthew Liberatore
4 Ivan Herrera
5 Zack Thompson
6 Jordan Walker
7 Genesis Cabrera
8 Elehuris Montero
9 Masyn Winn
10 Jhon Torres
11 Junior Fernandez
12 Johan Oviedo
13 Angel Rondon
14 Jake Woodford
15 Trejyn Fletcher
16 Julio Rodriguez
17 Kodi Whitley
18 Malcom Nunez
19 Tink Hence
20 Edmundo Sosa
21 Edwin Nunez
22 Justin Williams
23 Tony Locey
24 Mateo Gil
25 Luken Baker
26 Ian Bedell
27 Roel Ramirez
28 Alec Burleson
29 Alvaro Seijas
30 Seth Elledge
31 Ricardo Sanchez
32 Andre Pallante
33 Griffin Roberts
34 Jack Ralston
35 Levi Prater
36 Adanson Cruz
37 Alex Fagalde
38 Juan Yepez
39 Justin Toerner
40 Jesus Cruz
41 Connor Jones
42 Steven Gingery
43 Edgardo Rodriguez
44 Evan Mendoza
45 Delvin Perez
46 Rodard Avelino
47 Rangel Ravelo
48 Patrick Romeri
49 Edgar Escobar
50 Max SchrockAlso, I might have missed it, but has anyone discussed the organization’s decision to have Malcom Nunez in the 60 at the ATS and not Jhon Torres? I assume it’s the dearth of major league ready OFs in the system, but it’s hard not to read some organizational priority into it. I generally see those two as being very similar types of prospect, but it seems safe to say the organization sees Nunez as a higher prospect than most of the rankings do.
grenadier1 asked:
Also, I might have missed it, but has anyone discussed the organization’s decision to have Malcom Nunez in the 60 at the ATS and not Jhon Torres?
The Torres discussion was had, not in comparison with Nunez, but vs. Fletcher. Most of the same points apply. It was on page 4 of the “Summer Camp 60-Man Roster (Updated)” thread. Here is the link.
https://thecardinalnation.com/forums/topic/summer-camp-44-man-roster/page/4/
Thanks Brian, good discussion. It does make more sense to compare apples to apples with Tre Fletcher, but for some reason Torres and Nunez are linked in my mind. I guess it’s the Peoria to JC track they shared last year.
Here is Rob Rains’ Cardinals top 20 prospects:
An interesting set of rankings. He has Masyn Winn ahead of Jordan Walker. Winn has a fun profile as a two-way player, but Walker is more of a sure bet to reach his ceiling than Winn. Jake Burns and Franklin Soto in his top 20. Probably too premature to insert Edwin Nunez into the top 10 at this stage of his career. Although, I do like his ranking of Mateo Gil at No. 20.
I see 2021 under only two guys…. Thompson and a late season call up for Oviedo. IMO, not close to what a consensus ranking will look like but I give him credit for putting it out at this place in time…. with his name on it.
Pre Covid, I would like to have seen the advancement of Gorman this year. He very well could be raking in Springfield now. Both he and Liberatore could have been much closer to the majors by now. Instead, it looks to be 2022 now. But, who knows, maybe some players will be pushed more aggressively next year.
How will rookie status be determined in 2020? Proration? So roughly multiply .375 by 150 at bats, or 50 innings?
2 questions.
How did the Cardinals and Pirates make trade after the trade deadline?
And where will Robles fit at this point in our top 50 prospects?
Minor leaguers (non-40-man) are not subject to the MLB trade deadline.
Robles would not be in my top 30, but I haven’t given it a lot of time. Perhaps others have an opinion.
I think this Heineman signing is a sneaky good addition. Seems to be developing a little more power. And he should be far better than having Weiters as backup. In case Yadi doesn’t sign, and/or Knizner traded, there is a chance he could be a decent back up. Switch hitting, and adds valuable depth while Julio Rodriguez and Herrera cut their teeth at AA/AAA.
Heineman is one of those players whose career is hard to understand. I read a piece written by a San Francisco scribe that said he was darned good at throwing out runners and darned good at framing his pitches. He has had very little success offensively, though. But overall, his hitting in the minors, especially for a catcher, hasn’t been bad at all. Just looking over his stats, I’d say that he has mostly OPS’d between .700-.800, and his BA has averaged around .250. Plus, he hit 10 HR’s in only 184 PA’s while in the PCL last year. I don’t understand why a catcher like this winds up with 5 different teams in his eight year span since being drafted. I hope he gets a full fledged chance while he is here, assuming he doesn’t get taken by somebody in the Rule 5 draft.
He seems to be your classic AAAA player. If Yadi stays he is probably the starting catcher in Memphis. If Yadi leaves he might be Knizner’s backup in St. Louis.
What became of Rob Kaminsky? Did he stay with the Cardinal organization? I thought he had never been outrighted, and would remain. Sorry if I repeated this question, but I think he is worth keeping around.
The Roster Matrix shows Kaminsky as one of 11 minor league free agents since the season ended.
St. Louis Cardinals Organization Roster Matrix – 2020-2021 Offseason
Looking very early at the Cards minors’ rotations:
Memphis Rondon
Oviedo
Woodford
Williams
SanchezSpringfield Fagalde
Parsons
Liberatore
Thompson
Seijas
RobertsPeoria Locey
Pallante
Cordero
Ralston
Gingery??
Walsh??Palm Beach Jiminez
Thomas
Lunn
Puello
SotoSeveral players may start at Memphis which would bump all of these folks down a peg. Williams may be moved to the bullpen. Gomber and Reyes could be candidates for 6th starter, and may be conditioned as such.
But I think most importantly, I am looking forward to see (hopefully) some kids come out of nowhere to impress, and become a prospect. A year plus not playing competitive games has to hurt. However, there is always a chance for the non 2020 Springfield campers to continue their work and could grow into their body as youngsters do. I am sure I have missed many potential adds here. I thought about Krucynski and Austin Warner for example, but I feel their best bet is moving to the bullpen, assuming they remain in the organization. In fact, Roberts might be a candidate for that, as well.
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