Summer Camp 60-man roster (updated)

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Viewing 25 posts - 76 through 100 (of 196 total)
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  • #132530
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Looks like a solid mix of the “next man up” and the high ceiling prospects that they’d like to get some development time in. This clearly shows the guys in the lower levels that the Cards have hopes for.

    #132542
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    No Jhon Torres?

    #132545
    David Martin
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    thanks for the article Brian. Wow.
    Walker, Winn and Fletcher.
    Good for them!
    I’m sure they appreciate the fact they were chosen over guys with eperience

    #132561
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    gscottar, lots of tough decisions and Torres must have been one of them. Who would you have dropped for him?

    If you assume the pitcher-hitter ratio is firm, then it came down to six position players plus Winn. They need the catcher in Rodriguez, so the candidates to bump are Mendoza (only middle infielder in this group), Gorman, Nunez, Walker and Fletcher. If it got down to the two outfielders, Fletcher has a longer runway ahead.

    P.S. The fact they had to add three extra COVID backfill pitchers early may have taken away whatever flexibility they had. Even with them, the initial Springfield ratio would have been 8 1/2 pitchers to 6 1/2 hitters, which does not seem out of line considering the pitcher pressure during the season for St. Louis is expected to be greater…

    #132562
    gscottar
    Participant

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    gscottar, lots of tough decisions and Torres must have been one of them. Who would you have dropped for him?

    I think an argument could be made for choosing Torres over Fletcher but it isn’t a slam dunk.

    #132569
    stlcard25
    Participant

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    It’s possible Torres gets work in the modified Arizona Fall League or a later instructional camp. Both guys have some good potential, but Fletcher losing a whole year of development with the Cards’ staff is a bigger deal, IMO.

    #132575
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    stlcard25 said:

    It’s possible Torres gets work in the modified Arizona Fall League or a later instructional camp.

    I would go even further and say it is likely (if something is held).

    #133590
    jlshetler
    Participant

    Free

    Is Ricardo Sánchez currently on the IL or part of the Springfield Camp roster? I guess I’m unclear how the injured lists work in conjunction with an ongoing camp.
    -Joe

    #133591
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Good question. The only players on the IL are Gallegos and Miller (plus Hicks and Brebbia out for the year). Reyes, Cabrera and Sanchez and the other 40-man players not with StL are optioned to the minors.

    #133597
    bccran
    Participant

    Last time I checked the MLB top 30 for the Cards, Torres was ranked #8 and Fletcher #18. TCN community vote has Torres #11 and Fletcher #18. In the TCN consolidated, Torres is #12 and Fletcher is #16.
    IMHO Torres should be in Springfield.

    #133599
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Bccran, as mentioned above, I think the Cards are banking on Torres getting some work in the expanded fall league and don’t want to lose a year of development for Fletcher. I think Fletcher has the higher ceiling as a 5 tool CF. I don’t think the call was a slam dunk, though. A lot of talented guys didn’t go to Springfield.

    #133616
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I wish our prospect rankings had that much power. The reality is that many factors go into these decisions, some of which we are not privy to. I thought Torres would be invited, too, but I am not all that concerned he wasn’t.

    Also, as folks may have caught on yesterday’s game thread, I asked Mo if he was going to fill the 60-man pool openings. He said he is still thinking through if he wants MLB-replacements or more prospects. So there is still a chance Torres will be invited.

    Whether anything happens this fall is still very much up in the air. I certainly would not bank on it.

    #133618
    CardsFanInChiTown
    Participant

    Free

    Could prospects be allowed to play in other leagues, that are out of the country, just to get a chance to play?

    #133619
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    What leagues are those?

    #133639
    bccran
    Participant

    If Fletcher has a higher ceiling, why is Torres higher on every prospect list?

    #133659
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    bccran, I did not comment on the ceilings, but Torres has enjoyed more success as a professional, so he could have a higher floor. On the other hand, he is also older.

    #133687
    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

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    Torres is a rule 5 eligible pick if not added to the 40 man roster. Maybe they dint want to give him a chance to impress.

    Will be interesting as to how some of these guys who didnt play this year get evaluated for 40 man roster spots this off season.

    #133698
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Hiding Torres is a possibility, I guess, though there are no scouts in the ballparks and no results from camp to assess. In that same vein, though, he clearly has less career runway than Fletcher, which should have mattered when they decided who to invest in this summer.

    #133702
    bccran
    Participant

    I don’t understand the term “less career runway”. Isn’t Torres 20 years old and Fletcher 19?

    #133709
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Cardinals career runway. As CC mentioned, Rule 5 comes first and minor league free agency is next. Age is not the most important. Years under contract is.

    #133714
    Cardinals27
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    My first thought when Torres wasn’t invited to camp was that the Cards might try to stash him away where no other teams scouts can see him. Perhaps with an eye to not placing on the 40 man roster before the Rule 5 deadline. But with a lot of time and roster decisions, trades etc. before that, that doesn’t make as much sense. Then there would be the matter of enough roster spaces when Brebbia and Hicks have to be added back. Wainright and Weiters being free agents, and Godoy being removed would open up more than enough spots to protect Torres.
    Not adding Torres is very curious. Is it possible the Cards don’t think as highly as TCN does of Torres?

    #133733
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    C27 asked:

    Is it possible the Cards don’t think as highly as TCN does of Torres?

    Absolutely, that is possible. It might even be probable. After all, the team thinks through many angles including some that most of us don’t, such as time remaining until R5 and/or free agency.

    It is a pretty rare situation when any team adds a player to the 40-man roster who has not performed well above the Appalachian League. Typically it occurs at Double-A or higher. Once on the 40-man, a player has just three years – not only to make MLB, but to stick there. Torres would have to start to move through the system very quickly, which he hasn’t done yet.

    To assume other organizations don’t know who he is is faulty. Whether anyone would use a 40-man spot on him is the question to consider. I really question whether his participation in a camp that no one will see would materially change how he is viewed externally.

    The only time I can remember this happened is when the Cards left Allen Cordoba (who was the MVP at JC, not just an above-average player) unprotected in Rule 5 and the Padres took him. A large segment of fans came totally unglued even though I bet many had no idea who Cordoba even was. They just knew the front office screwed up again. But time showed they didn’t. Cordoba didn’t cut it.

    #133748
    Cardinals27
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    It would have been interesting for Cordoba, and Perdomo for that matter, to see how they would have developed if not been picked in the Rule 5 draft. They were clearly rushed too fast, and too far. Maybe they wouldn’t be stars, but I imagine they would have turned out somewhat better than they did. I guess both will receive MLB pensions, and will see a benefit.

    #133758
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Who woulda thought that taking a guy directly from the Appy League to MLB might backfire? At least Perdomo had reached High-A, but even that was not enough.

    #133765
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    I guess both will receive MLB pensions, and will see a benefit.

    Given that I’ve read MLB has the best sports league pension, this comment made me curious. So I just read a little more about it. If I read the charts correctly, as of now, Cordoba will qualify for a $6,612 annual pension if he takes it early at age 45 and it will be $21,000 if he waits until 62.

    For Perdomo it will be $26,460 at 45 and $84,000 at 62.

Viewing 25 posts - 76 through 100 (of 196 total)
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