Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › 2022 CBA negotiations
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February 27, 2022 at 7:32 pm #180278
There was some sense of productivity today, but the gap on key issues remains large. Tomorrow on deadline day, they’re meeting earlier in the day than they had yet. Notable: no one suggested Sunday brought significant momentum, or a breakthrough. So, temper the urge to be excited
— Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) February 28, 2022
February 28, 2022 at 9:45 am #180300Well, it’s Zero Hour. Today is the day we find out whether Pugs is an utter genius or not. And it also happens to be my birthday today so the odds of Pugs success just went up..:)
r/Esteemed Rat<~~~~who is under the weather on his birthday
February 28, 2022 at 9:45 am #180301Who knew that MLB's pace of play would be even more brutal in the offseason
— Brendan Kuty 🧟♂️ (@BrendanKutyNJ) February 28, 2022
February 28, 2022 at 12:19 pm #180304Update on #MLBTV and MLB Audio subscription renewals: we will not bill for 2022 subscriptions today. Notification about renewal will occur once a new CBA is in effect. All current subscriptions will remain active until then. Subscribers, check your email for important updates.
— MLB.TV (@MLBTV) February 28, 2022
February 28, 2022 at 12:51 pm #180305MLB today indicated a willingness to miss a month of games and took a more threatening tone than yesterday, sources briefed on the day’s first meeting between MLB and the Players Association tell me, @Ken_Rosenthal and @FabianArdaya. Full context of conversation not yet known.
— Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) February 28, 2022
February 28, 2022 at 2:05 pm #180306Players and their families taking a more aggressive public stance.
https://twitter.com/JTaillon50/status/1498381641374474248
Just your daily reminder:
This is NOT Billionaires vs Millionaires. Anyone that says that and adds that they need to “get over it”. They’re wrong.
71% of MLB players make less than $1 mill. 66% less than $600k. 16% less than $100k.
That’s all moot. Pay em what they’re worth.
— Ben Verlander (@BenVerlander) February 28, 2022
February 28, 2022 at 3:59 pm #180307Oh oh. Not dead yet though. A deal has to be agreed to, in principle, today. Play ball!
February 28, 2022 at 4:37 pm #180308I’d say that perhaps some of those players makes tens of millions a year could take less money and then those that make under 1 million could make more, there was a commentator on tv that said that the MLB would eventually have to have some sort of salary cap otherwise salaries would just get crazy, like a 500 or more million dollar contract and that the players wouldn’t actually be worth that and prices would get out of control…I know the players wouldn’t go for that but they could price themselves out of a job or some could…
February 28, 2022 at 4:48 pm #180309It’s Zero Hour minus 6 – till midnight.
Looks like we aren’t going to have baseball until early May – at the earliest.
C’mon Pugs, don’t let me down. Ride in there on your white horse with a hearty “Hiyo Silver Away!”
r/Esteemed Rat
February 28, 2022 at 8:27 pm #180311To think that there are players who can’t get enough traction at the major league level, to collect more than a measly $600K, and that there are ‘up for a cup of coffee’ players who only get to collect a paltry $100K for their hard work, is shocking. It’s just seems so unfair.
The solution to this lockout is simple. Just raise ticket prices by, say, an average amount of maybe $20 per ticket. That would allow a team like the Cardinals, with their 3,000,000 paying customers, to rake in an extra $60M per year. That should be enough to give both players and owners what they want. To hell with teams that don’t have 3,000,000 paying customers. The’ll just have to figure it out. We all know that baseball teams are bottomless pits full of money, so there ought to be a way for them to figure it out. And if those bottomless pits run out of money, owners can take money out of the billions they have stashed away in secret, tax-free, offshore accounts to sign players needed for fielding a winning team.
March 1, 2022 at 6:54 am #180312Looks like today is the new deadline. Seems like there’s been some movement on both sides. Hopefully they can come to an agreement sometime during the day.
MLB and the MLBPA didn't agree to a new CBA by the league's self-imposed deadline.
While definite progress has been made, there are large gaps in major areas of negotiation, sources tell @Ken_Rosenthal.
The "new deadline" will be 5 PM ET on Tuesday, per multiple reports. pic.twitter.com/0SEdI7dOnP
— The Athletic (@TheAthletic) March 1, 2022
March 1, 2022 at 6:56 am #180313Correction: MLB prearb bonus pool is at $25 million, not $20 million.
— Evan Drellich (@EvanDrellich) March 1, 2022
March 1, 2022 at 11:09 am #180328You just have to be bullish on baseball 2022 with the latest developments. I actually became a little bit nervous yesterday, but my angst appears to be without merit. Baseball, under no conditions, could weather the backlash of an incomplete 2022 campaign. Fortunately, I believe all concerned never lost sight of this. How about we play ball!
March 1, 2022 at 12:01 pm #180330Complaining about players’ salaries is something that the owners always count on in the court of public opinion. But why do fans get angry if players make more money than joe six pack? Can joe six pack throw a baseball 95 mph or hit a baseball 400 feet? Probably not. We like to romanticize that players are just like us but they are not. They are incredible athletes that have skills that less than 1% of the population have, therefore, they are compensated accordingly. Some movie stars get $30M per movie but you don’t hear many people complain about it. The market rate is the market rate.
Players want a certain percentage of the revenue that the sport generates. The sport is a multi billion dollar industry so it stands to reason that the players would get a certain chunk of it since it is them that the fans pay to see. The fans don’t pay to see the owners.
Do I get frustrated when the Cardinals pay millions of dollars so Matt Carpenter can hit .175 or Brett Cecil can do nothing? Yes, I do but it is balanced out with young star players making the league minimum and these negotiations seem to be about trying to help out the younger players. There is no doubt that the owners won the previous CBA so it is understandable that the players are wanting to make some gains this time.
March 1, 2022 at 12:30 pm #180331It amazes me that there are so many people who will form an opinion based on their personal preferences, then spin a narrative to support their opinion regardless of what the bigger picture looks like.
If the players gave up their demand for reducing arbitration eligibility by a year, as reported, then progress is being made since that was a non-starter for owners. As a fan I’m very relieved that reducing time to get to arbitration is no longer being considered. You watch these players get drafted and develop in the minors. Then they get to MLB, and you have to start worrying about how long they will be able to keep them.
March 1, 2022 at 2:34 pm #180332An owner can continue to keep a player for his entire career – but only if the owner is eventually willing to pay market value for him.
It all gets down to how many years one believes is fair to tie a player to the organization that drafted and developed him – while keeping his salary below his worth to other teams.
Right now, that is six years. The players aren’t trying to change that. They are trying to close the dollar gap between their managed pay level for those six years and what they are actually worth.
Just like anything in a free market society, something is worth what someone else will pay for it.
This is not a matter of affordability, but of expense control.
March 1, 2022 at 2:52 pm #180333I am guessing Mr. Passan has joined Mr. Rosenthal as writers banned from MLB Network…
MLB did this. The owners' arrogance. The mistreatment of players. As the league threatens to turn its lockout into a canceled Opening Day, the story of how something so very avoidable grew into Rob Manfred's disastrous outcome.
Free and unlocked at ESPN:https://t.co/5WXA1tCHSl pic.twitter.com/HuAZgvZsrp
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) February 28, 2022
March 1, 2022 at 4:56 pm #180334MLB has canceled the first two series of the regular season. The Cardinals released a statement that they hope to hold the home opener on schedule on April 7.
Statement from the Major League Baseball Players Association: pic.twitter.com/rmpciPsQm4
— MLBPA Communications (@MLBPA_News) March 1, 2022
March 1, 2022 at 5:06 pm #180335I disagree that a player’s ‘worth’ is what someone else will pay for that player. No one, or everyone, is ‘worth’ $30M, or $700K, for that matter. This is not about worth. This is about activism and punishing billionaires for making too much money.
To say a player’s ‘worth is what someone else will pay’ reminds me of the moronic definition of insanity which says that insanity is ‘doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. That’s not insanity. That’s abject stupidity. Insanity has to do with destructive behavior.
I’m to the point now that I’d just as soon call off the whole season. Then, declare an impasse in the negotiations, and start all over from scratch. Everybody involved gets torched. But maybe out of the ashes a sensible and workable system for managing professional baseball could emerge.
In case it’s not obvious to some, I’ll say that I’m really pissed about this.
March 1, 2022 at 7:44 pm #180339This is about activism and punishing billionaires for making too much money.
I really don’t think this is the case. At any rate..in this case, what do the billionaires even bring to the game? I personally don’t care if they make ten times what they currently make; it’s the idea that they bring 0 value to the game while the players bring 100% of the value, and yet the owners act like they have something to add that any baseball fan cares about. If an owner fully financed their own stadium, then maybe they’d have an argument but the majority of owners (in all sports) hold their cities (read: fans) hostage with threats that if they don’t cough up several hundred million bucks every 20-30 years to finance their home, they will take their ball and go somewhere else. Then they have the audacity to pretend that they care about the fans. That’s bull. They care about their profits, end of story.
To be fair, the players pretty much only care about the same thing. So do I blame either side for wanting more money? No. It doesn’t mean I have to like it.
I wish there was a “Fans Union” that could step in and put an end to this nonsense. There’s literally no reason for canceled games. It’s mostly the fault of the owners, with a healthy dose on the players as well. The ones who get to take the brunt of it are, of course, the paying customers, once again.
March 1, 2022 at 8:13 pm #180340Was Albert worth what the Angels paid him? Was Carpenter, Fowler, etc. worth what the Cardinals paid for them?
I don’t think the last contract favored the owners that much. Some wised up and quit overpaying players who had reached and in many cases passed their peak years. I don’t see how that will change no matter what the contract calls for.
The unfairness is that pre-free agency and particularly pre-arbitration players are often underpaid compared to thier contribution. And that players are paid the minimum wage for multiple years no matter how good they play. And that some minor league players are paid so little that their diet is often unhealthy fast food. And finally in the end the fans pay the price and will do so until the price becomes too much to bear.
A large contribution to the unfairness is the huge contracts some free agents get and I’m not sure the players association doesn’t want to keep them and increase the younger players pay. That is sort of hoping for the best part of both ends of the equation. I have no problem with players capitalizing on their talents and getting what some owners will pay them. That is our economic system and however flawed it is still the most successful out there. The owners have control over the size of the contracts in the end but some understandingly cave to avoid fan displeasure. If you don’t think that is prevelant just look at the chat pages during the season. However, some are not too smart and others have so much revenue they don’t care if they have several bad contracts laying around.
You have to ask yourself who could we have signed or traded for had so much not been tied up on Carpenter, Fowler et.al. Further question would be would our management team use the money.
March 1, 2022 at 10:26 pm #180342stlcard25 – I’m guessing that you’re just as pissed about what’s happening as I am.
March 2, 2022 at 6:32 am #180343In sum, Major League Baseball teams are doing just fine economically and, while a select few players are signing massive guaranteed contracts, many are at or close to minimum salary.
The union is tasked with representing the best interests of all players. Often a tricky chore. https://t.co/LNktOv0zlN
— Darren Heitner (@DarrenHeitner) March 2, 2022
March 2, 2022 at 6:57 am #180344These are Ken Rosenthal quotes.
a net negative for both parties, when there is a possibility of growing the pie and everyone benefiting, that they issue propaganda (unstated – through is colleagues in the media), that their proposals are unserious and not enough.
Ken was on the inside for many years. He saw 2/ pic.twitter.com/ryX8ZEezWn— eugenefreedman.bsky.social (@EugeneFreedman) March 2, 2022
March 2, 2022 at 7:26 am #180347Manfred has more time now to work on his golf game.
Associated Press photo taken by Lynne Sladky earlier this afternoon of MLB commissioner Rob Manfred at Roger Dean Stadium, where labor talks are being held. pic.twitter.com/isAzV6P86o
— Michael Silverman (@MikeSilvermanBB) March 1, 2022
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