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Bye bye Yadi. Don’t let the door hit you in the butt. Why not try and be a gentleman and act like Wainwright did. You know that MLB rules do not allow large dip in pay unless you are a free agent. Adam got his max based on performance. Maybe it’ time you did too. It may be a good time to get the catcher situation settled without signing another dud contract.
Really bad optics for yadi to go public in a time like this.
I dont know that any team would pay yadi anything but backup type money in a contract through the fall of 22, so this is really just negotiating pujol$ style.
Edit: i do think a team would pay him starter money through 22, just not significantly more, really leaves a bad taste in my mouth about him.
If he wants to play through 2022, I think he and club will work out a deal. Had this year been played as normal, we could have gotten a better idea if Knizner is ready to take over. Given that uncertainty, I think the club works a deal to keep Yadi here for a couple more seasons, figuring even if he has significantly slowed down on the field his legacy as a lifetime Cardinal will be worth it.
And it might be that he is still the best catcher on the roster in ‘22.
My instant take on #stlcards catcher Yadier Molina's remarks about intending to play in 2021:
"Yadier Molina Takes Back Career Control from Cardinals" (free)https://t.co/iFMKJK06H8 pic.twitter.com/H6qdaztyIS
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) April 29, 2020
Tough spot for the Cards. Either take on a huge overpay based on past performance — while punting on the eventual issue of breaking in a new catcher who might already be an adequate replacement …. or risk taking a PR hit by “disrespecting” a Cardinal icon. I’d be surprised if Molina didn’t steer it in that direction if it helps his cause. He hasn’t been bashful before.
If it comes to that, Cards should just thank him and wish him the best. You can’t win that PR issue with some fans and media, but savvy fans know the deal. Just like in Albert’s case, years later fans can still adore their hero while realizing the Cards made the right move.
I think pujols comes out like a rose compared to yadi here..pujols got a 20% raise and 40mm more at the age of “31” at the peak of his career…yadi negotiating as a 38 year old former great player trending down defensively (which was always his paramount value) and realistically asking for a few more million (4-8?? just a guess)
First. I’m okay with Yadi going public. It gives fans something to talk about while experiencing these withdrawals. Besides, he deserves respect no matter what he does or says. He is a Cardinals icon.
Second, I think Yadi is still the best catcher we have, and I think he still has a lot to give.
Third, if this helps him get into the HOF, that’s another reason to be glad about it.
Fourth, he’s a fan favorite. We need our fans to keep coming to games and having Yadi there will support that.
Fifth, the Rockies need a catcher and if Knizner is good enough to take over a starting job for St. Louis, then he ought to be good enough to start for Colorado. So, we should save him for trade bait. Ivan Herrera, or Julio Rodriguez, or Pedro Pages, is our catcher of the future, and Yadi can hold a place for one of them for a year or two as far as mudville is concerned. Also, IMO, t would be nice for Yadi to catch in 2020 and 2021, and spend 2022 breaking Herrera in.I’m just stating my opinions….. not getting into a pissing match about it.
I don’t see what the pandemic has to do with this. He seems to be using that a reason to bring this issue up but the two topics seem to be irrelevant of each other to me. Either they will agree on terms or not. That was also the case before the pandemic. The Cardinals might have to offer less now because of falling revenues but that should be the same for the other teams as well.
It won’t bother me if he leaves. Yes he is an icon but the team has treated him well over the years and I do not like contracts mostly based on sentimentality. This team needs to get younger at several positions and catcher is one of them.
I’m alright with re-signing Yadi. However, it needs to be after the season is over and we can give him the more than the maximum cut. I am OK with up to $12 million AAV. He can hold the position until Herrera is ready.
We really needed this minor league season to be played. We needed to get Herrera and Rodriguez more seasoning so that we could trade Knizner for an improvement in another area after this season. Who knows, we may need to re-sign Wieters to be the starter for 2 years.
gscottar said:
I don’t see what the pandemic has to do with this…
He also talked about “unfinished business”, but it must be personal business, not team business. If the Cardinals play, they have at least as good of a chance of winning the World Series after the pandemic than before. Given their pitching depth in a compressed schedule, you might argue their chances improve.
One might guess that what he really means is that the pandemic is going to cause him to lose a half-season of career stats as he focuses on his individual legacy. And if they play a lot of doubleheaders, as expected, he is bound to play in a lower percentage of games than in a normal season.
Yadi wouldn’t have gotten 16mil on the FA market this past winter, so of course he wants an extension before free agency.
Another club? Free agency? Yah, good idea Yadi, lets address it then. NO Q-offer.If the Cardinals want Yadi back, and I believe they will definitely want him back for 2021, they will offer him fair market value, and Yadi will accept, IMO. I understand the infatuation with youth. But Yadi is still one of the best catchers in the game, both offensively and defensively. He’s just not as good as he used to be.
Chasing the best contract seems to be what he’s saying in this latest news. Sure we are his first option, if he gets the amount he wants, but he also made it clear he could sign elsewhere. So what is a “fair contract” for 2021? It’s 10mil max for me.
If he wants to be paid as “one of the best catchers in the game”, I doubt he gets it, from any club. After 2016 I would have agreed to that opinion, Yadi still as a top 5 catcher. After 2019, a middle of the pack ranking statistically, is the best I can do.
I want him back also, but the age related decline needs to be addressed in our contract offer for his age 38, or age 38 & 39 year old seasons.
My answer to your question, jj-cf-stl, is “I don’t know yet.” Before I would make Molina a firm offer for next year, I would want to see how he produces at age 37-38 this year. If he is injured or his results drop off, that is going to matter in the size of my offer. On the other hand, if he plays especially well in 2020, I would recognize that, too.
Barring a huge step upward in performance, I would likely not offer a $10 million base. Instead, I would start with a lower base and build in big incentives, as they did with Wainwright.
To help put my view into perspective, only three MLB catchers currently make more than $10 MM per year, and of course, Molina is one of them – the one on top:
Molina $20 MM
Posey $19.875 MM
Grandal $18.25 MMGoing year to year is the most logical thing for the Cardinals to do, however, if Yadi absolutely demands a 2 year extension I might feel comfortable doing a 2 year $20M deal. $10M per year would be more than fair to him, would honor his legacy, and would give the team a little relief from his current deal.
If he demands more than that then the team should be prepared to let him walk.
I expanded my earlier comments here:
"Using Adam Wainwright’s Contracts to Structure Yadier Molina’s 2021 Offer" – today's new #stlcards article at The Cardinal Nation. (free) https://t.co/FErrPmk68e pic.twitter.com/qUnbCqHRGw
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) April 30, 2020
And it might be that he is still the best catcher on the roster in ‘22.
That’s only possible if the Cards continue to help other teams by trading away our elite catching prospects because YM won’t sit. Is Herrera next up to be gone? (note: he tells Shildt who should be catching and what spot in the order he should bat in). For Molina to want to continue his “legacy” and boost his chances of making it to the HOF etc., just shows that it is all about YADI. I’m about the team… let him walk (like he sprints to first base) out the door. Hasta nunca.
14NyquisT: Boy did you echo my sentiments exactly. Yadi has done well for the team but Yadi does not yet run the team ( at least I don’t think so). He needs to start training as a manager. Get a coaching job.
Yadi has had a great career and I would love to see him retire as a Cardinal. He will go down as one of the Cardinal all-time greats. Having said this, I would hate to see the Cardinals get locked into two years for something like $18M per season. They are already living with the Carpenter contract hanging over them. I would be fine with a “base contract with incentives” similar to Wainright’s deal.
Carlton Fisk comes to mind. Late in his career, he seemed to have regular contract disputes with the White Sox but stayed on to chase personal milestones. As late as age 43, Fisk was still catching more than 100 games a season, and got MVP votes at age 42, but his bat was always more potent than Molina’s. The day after he set the new career record for games caught, the Sox released him at age 45. (Molina would need to catch 280 more games to pass Fisk.)
From a “Cardinals should do whatever it takes” editorial, the author notes the following:
“A two year deal with Molina means him, Dexter Fowler, and Matt Carpenter will go off the books at the same time. The Cardinals can start fresh and bring in some new weapons…”
This is quite an interesting parallel to draw. It reads like he is suggesting the Cards are doomed through 2022 anyway, so why not add a third bad contract to go with the other two?
(One silver lining is that Fowler’s deal actually does not run through 2022, but ends after 2021.)
Guessing the next column will be a plea for DeWitt to increase the payroll to $200 million…
Not only Fowler but the team’s obligation to Carp is also over after 2021, assuming that his option doesn’t vest.
Assuming. However, since Carpenter made enough plate appearances to satisfy his option in six of his seven full MLB seasons, at this point, I will assume the opposite – that it will vest. Then again, if his 2019 is his new normal, then not. (Remember that his 2020 PAs will be prorated for the partial season.)
BW, I’m expecting 2020 to be a small sample and likely not under normal conditions. 2020 is not going to carry a lot of weight for me, some, but not a lot, whether Yadi is all-star caliber or struggles mightily. I’m looking at his last three year trend and not whatever 2020 turns out to be.
I’d rather not go the incentives route with Yadi. Firm, fair offer and see what he decides. I’d like him back, and after DFA’d (in 2019) D’Arnaud pulled an 8mil AAV contract this past winter……
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