January 5, 2020 at 5:30 pm #118402mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
I like Knizner and I hope he has a productive MLB career. But, IMO, a healthy Yadier Molina behind the plate, even at his age 38 season, is going to contribute more to the team than Andrew Knizner. All anybody has to do is listen to the pitchers talk about how they like pitching to him. That part of his game is something that is impossible top quantify, but it means a whole lot to a pitching staff. No one knows how good these young pitchers the Cardinals keep coming up with would really be without Yadi nursing them along.January 6, 2020 at 10:49 am #118448PadsFSParticipantFree
It could have been disastrous, especially given the talent the Cards gave up to get him, to let Goldschmidt reach free agency before trying to sign him. That would have been a terrible path to take. One should not hint that every early extension is bad. That is not the case, though we agree for Molina now.
One thing I will note. The extensions they give to the young players buying out arbitration and the first couple years of free agency almost always work out. It’s the second one that kills us. Wainwright and Molina both made the Cardinals a fortune relative to production on their first contracts, just like Carpenter’s $52M deal. Wong’s $25M deal, DeJong’s $26M deal, Martinez’s $51M, and Garcia’s $27M deal were all bonanza’s from the team’s perspective. They got burned before doing this with Chris Carpenter’s 2nd deal, then again with Wainwright’s second deal (the $97M one), and now with Carpenter, Wainwright, Mikolas, and Goldschmidt, although the latter two are different imo.
The only mistake contracts on young players they made were Piscotty and Allen, but both of those worked out in the end.
January 6, 2020 at 11:02 am #118450PadsFSParticipantFree
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by PadsFS.
With regards to Molina, he gave the Cardinals $163.1M of surplus value on his first $22M deal. Then he gave $74.4M of surplus value on his second deal of $75M. He’s at -$10.8M on his current deal.
If there’s one player that’s earned a goodwill contract, it was Molina. HOWEVER, that shouldn’t entitle him to a second goodwill contract.
January 6, 2020 at 11:20 am #118454
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by PadsFS.
.January 6, 2020 at 11:31 am #118458Minuteman3ParticipantFree
I don’t how to compute values on player deals but I do know that I would not give Yadi a spring extension and would think long and hard about it even in the fall unless he has shown that he is really deserving of it. The point is we can’t keep kicking replacement catchers to the curb waiting for Molina to decide he wants to retire. Then when he does we will be in the boat that a lot of other teams are now – still looking for a catcher to nail down the job. I see more in Knizner than I ever saw in Kelly so unless Wieters is resigned I think Knizner has to be on the big team this season……….AND…………he has to be allowed to play more than the pittance our backup catchers are now. After this season I would like to see Molina get into the coaching business.January 6, 2020 at 11:40 am #118459
ERROR: Your reply cannot be created at this time.February 1, 2020 at 11:15 am #121197
FILED UNDER: VEB CARDINALS ANALYSIS
Why a Molina Extension is a Good Idea
Molina will only play for the Cardinals and he wants to play for another two years. What does an extension look like and how does that affect the roster & budget?
By J. P. Hill Jan 30, 2020, 11:00am EST
The large amount of comments were 50/50 on the topic of an extension being a prudent move. Money became a controversial subject of discussion. Article VI was posted.
Article VI, Section B(1) – Maximum Salary Cut Rate
“A Club may not tender, sign, or renew, a Player under reserve to the Club pursuant to Article XX of this Agreeement and paragraph 10(a) of the Uniform Player’s Contract to a Uniform players contract that provides a salary for (a) Major League service that constitutes a reduction in excess of 20% of his salary for Major League service in the previous season or in excess of 30% of his salary for Major League services two seasons prior to the first season covered by the new contract.”February 1, 2020 at 11:32 am #121200
I read it when it came out. The author did not even mention the salary cut limitation in the article. A major point to have ignored/not understood.
The key point is NO EXTENSION. Instead, negotiate a NEW CONTRACT after the season.
They should come over here more often! I wrote this back in November. 😉February 1, 2020 at 1:20 pm #121225
I was thinking that Molina might be demanding an extension and his talks about that “cardinal for life” philosophy will come into play. He’s aware that a new contract will not be in his best interest. I guess we’ll see if the FO will cave to his cravings…. You know…. how he is an icon and all. That might just work in his favor and DeWitt will consider that money well spent and will keep some of those fannies in the seats.February 1, 2020 at 1:27 pm #121227gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Why does Molina’s popularity with the fans have anything to do with a contract extension? (That is a rhetorical question). I have been told on this board before that the smart, analytical, Cardinal front office does business based on advanced baseball statistics and not on emotion so now they are going to give Yadi an extension because he sells a lot of jerseys and fans might revolt if he is mistreated?
If fans want to acquire a big name player from outside the organization we are told that the front office doesn’t and shouldn’t listen to the ignorant fans but if the fans clamor for more Yadi the front office should cave and do what the fans want? This doesn’t compute to me.February 1, 2020 at 1:29 pm #121228
It is a tough situation for the Cardinals. Many fans will criticize a large extension, which could evolve into another Fowler/Carpenter mistake. Many others will criticize the team not respecting him if not signed this spring. (I suspect the latter group align closely with those who disregard the team’s self-imposed payroll limits.)February 1, 2020 at 2:13 pm #121232
DeWitt’s perception of Molina’s value to the team’s bottom line will be a big factor how this plays out. For example how many visitors to St. Louis go to a Card’s game to see a future HOF, and what would the effects of a fan revolt on ticket and Yadi paraphernalia sales. No one really knows the answers… but being a shrewd owner it is all about how he perceives the negotiations will move that bottom line. Perhaps more so than how many games the Cards win.February 1, 2020 at 2:37 pm #121233
Molina has already said he will retire if he isn’t wanted by the Cardinals for 2021, so his legacy is pretty firm. They just need to slow-play the negotiations into the fall.
In terms of the team’s bottom line, I doubt him staying vs. retiring would matter significantly. They could even afford another couple of years at $20 MM per. The problem is the negative impact to the buying power to assemble the rest of the roster.February 1, 2020 at 2:54 pm #121234BlackHillsCardParticipantFree
They need to slow play into the fall and tell him he’s splitting time with Knizner in 2021.February 1, 2020 at 9:54 pm #1212501964cardsParticipantPaid - Annual
I would be willing to re-up Yadi. However, I agree withthe slow walk Approach to resigning Molina … make sure both parties agree he has another year and sign the deal after free agency has started. I would be fine with The club following the path they walked with Wainright when agreeing to a one-year incentive based contract.
Yadi has lost 40 or more at bats per season the last three successive seasons (a little more tha 10 games per season). Injuries and Father Time are catching up with him. The club should expect Yadi to play 100 games and get approximately 370 at bats. I expect Weiters and Knizner will see a fair amount playing time. Any contract oroposal should reflect this trend.
I just do not want the Cardinals to sign another large guaranteed extension (e.g. Carpenter) which constrains their ability to spend elsewhere.February 2, 2020 at 2:03 pm #121268
Sign Molina and he’ll tell you when he wants to play. He might agree to something other than that but he’ll play when he wants to. Yadi trumping Shildt won’t change. Molina plays the icon card. Just keeping it real. You can think otherwise but you will be wrong.February 6, 2020 at 1:40 pm #121544jj-cf-stlParticipantFree
bikemike, I agree Yadi is more of a “7th or 8th place batter”, but slotting him there would lower the successful sac bunt %, with him on 1B. If you’ll notice, we usually have a wong, bader and edman type footspeed batting seventh and eighth, in an effort to get a productive out from our pitchers.
I agree with the November FA signing of Yadi, following the Wainwright template.February 6, 2020 at 2:36 pm #1215501982 willieParticipantFree
well until I see a catcher that is better than yadi on defense, I think they should keep him. the ones they have had so far trying to take his spot haven’t did it for me. since yadi doesn’t want to play for someone else, I would wait til after the season. but I would then give him a fair contract with incentives. I think yadi would take it if its fair. but I think the cardinals weren’t fair with waino this off season. he should have got a bit more when you figure how good he was. but yet they gave carpenter three years of around thirty million dollars. yea he was all world for maybe half a year, but he was all basement for a bigger part of it.February 6, 2020 at 3:05 pm #1215611964cardsParticipantPaid - Annual
The Carpenter extension was a mistake. The club moved too quickly and awarded him with a contract that did not align with his production. They are where they are and the team has to live with it this year and next (unless another team wants to make a deal for Carp).
Having said this, one bad contract is not the reason to sign another. Learn your lesson and make better decisions. Let’s see how Yadi does this season and go from there.February 17, 2020 at 8:18 am #122663
Mo made a very interesting reply to a Danny Mac question this morning. He said that he and DeWitt would need to talk about Molina’s extension before he talks with the catcher’s agent.
Since they’ve had all winter to discuss it internally, it tells me they are slow-playing it (which I agree with).
(For those who want to listen, the audio link is in the Scoops with Danny Mac thread.)
And for those who haven’t been following closely over the winter, the following article has more background.March 11, 2020 at 6:23 pm #124545gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
This headline is a bit misleading based on the content of Saxon’s article. His article is more about Knizer.
— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) March 11, 2020
March 11, 2020 at 6:35 pm #124549BlackHillsCardParticipantFreeMarch 11, 2020 at 6:36 pm #124550
- This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by gscottar.
I will have to go a step farther here. There is NOTHING new about Molina in Saxon’s article. It is ALL about Knizner. Click-bait title, IMO.March 11, 2020 at 8:49 pm #124558stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
Jumping to conclusions is nothing new for the “I’ve gotta be the first to report” crowd. Hopefully the Cards are smart enough to watch the year play out and then offer Yadi something commensurate with his level of play this year.April 29, 2020 at 12:40 pm #127686
(Note: stlcard25 posted this link the same time as me, but I am leaving this post up because it is on the existing Molina contract thread instead of starting a new one.)
Here we go. I respect where Molina is coming from because he has to look out for himself. But it was not like the Cardinals were not going to make him an offer for next year. The only question would be if the money would be enough for Molina. He did not get his desired extension yet (for some very good rea$on$ from the team standpoint), and is turning up the heat on the Cardinals. I did not think this was going to be a distraction this season, but it just may become one.
Yadier Molina tells @ESPN he has changed his mind, will consider free agency if #Cardinals don't extend his contract: “St. Louis is my first option. But if they don’t sign me, I’m willing to go into free agency. This situation has changed my mentality.”https://t.co/jXV28Lgblr
— Marly Rivera (@MarlyRiveraESPN) April 29, 2020
- This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by Brian Walton.
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