June 18, 2022 at 5:59 pm #188424forsch31ParticipantFree
bc, like I said, it was just to clarify. I will say that, yesterday, you indicated he started the 9/4 game but Kim actually started it. Woodford relieved him in the 2nd inning.June 21, 2022 at 1:14 pm #188719
Bottomline the FO and OM have given Woodford the shaft this year. The slider movement story is just that, a story. The movement is there, its just where it starts and finishes is off a little, but is a quick fix. Woodford should be the long guy right now. Verhagen just makes too many mistakes, as does Witt and McF. Hicks should be another set up guy and Woodford the long guy.
The best pen right now would be…
Hicks when ready, otherwise Oviedo.
AAA -> Witt,McF,Whitley, Packy.June 21, 2022 at 1:27 pm #188721Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
Just to be clear, veterans like Wittgren and McFarland cannot be optioned to the minors without their consent. Roster restrictions are not popular, but they are real. Once you let the veterans go, then there is much less depth available when needed. It increases the challenge.
To be specific, the only active pitchers in the minors right now with options are Liberatore, Woodford, Whitley, Junior and Packy. Pacheco is still in Springfield.June 21, 2022 at 1:48 pm #188723
Understood, Thx Brian, but at the current rate with McF, Witt and VerH, we won’t be playing past the regular season!!June 23, 2022 at 7:46 am #188938LeeParticipantPaid - Annual
Woodford looked really good yesterday. I did watch the game and his off speed stuff was great. So he is doing what OM wanted him to. It was a very strange situation that even the game announcers commented on: they had runners on 1st and 2nd, with 1 out, and the 1st baseman was playing up in the grass for some reason..? Of course then a grounder right towards 1st and he can’t get it… unless he is playing in a normal 1st base position off the bag and back, then its probably a double play. Bottom line is Woodford was in command of the game for 6 inngs. just bad defense on 1 play.June 23, 2022 at 10:56 am #188960
He’s a good, steady, durable pitcher with a MLB ERA of 3.22 this season, during the few chances he’s gotten.June 23, 2022 at 12:03 pm #188969mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
Lee – Nice post. Thanks.
I’d love to know the reasoning behind bringing up Fernández rather than Woodford. Most likely, the staff at Memphis didn’t see a promotion coming, so they started him last night and now he needs his off days.June 23, 2022 at 12:23 pm #188970
Anybody else hear the rumor that the Mets are interested in Woodford.?
I would hate to see him go, but a trade is probably best for him.June 23, 2022 at 6:23 pm #189004
Cardinals bullpen ERAs this season so far –
Helsley – 0.33
Pallante – 1.29
Cabrera – 2.27
Gallegos – 2.70
Oviedo – 3.00
Woodford – 3.32
Thompson – 3.95
Liberatore – 4.00
Wittgren – 5.20
Naughton – 5.20
Whitley – 5.68
VerHagen – 5.85
McFarland – 7.43
Brooks – 7.71
Where’s Woody?June 23, 2022 at 11:59 pm #189015858booyahParticipantFree
I think Jake is beong stretched as a starter in AAA now because they know they made a mistake with Hicks anf no one really knows with Matz and Flaherty what we are going to get. Palante is a rookie as well.
Yeah we could use his arm in the pen but starting pitching can be so fragile. I agree he’s been screwed 6 ways to Sunday by management but this is likely insurance if any else happens.June 24, 2022 at 2:16 am #189017
“I agree he’s been screwed 6 ways to Sunday by management but this is likely insurance if any else happens.”
Marmol has used 11 different starting pitchers this year. If there was any chance he’d give Woodford an opportunity, we’d have seen it long ago. All the other Cardinal pitchers in Double-A, Triple-A, and the majors would have to run away and join the circus for Woodford to get a shot.
And the funny thing is, with the advantage of hindsight, this actually started in Spring Training. When the “competition” for Flaherty’s open rotation spot was announced (VerHagen, Brooks, Hicks, and Woodford were the semi-official declared contestants), Woodford immediately got off to an excellent start, permitting just one run in his first six innings.
But after that, for no announced reason, Marmol put him exclusively into “back fields games” rather than the regular, observable tilts. In those unofficial games, Woodford was also extremely effective, allowing just one more run, or maybe none, over 6 or 7 more innings I believe. (I paid pretty close attention to the back field game reports in the Post-Dispatch, as the battle for 5th starter seemed fairly important. Which was why I thought it odd at the time, that Woodford would be selected to NOT pitch in real games.)
Of course, in retrospect there was no actual battle at all, and I’d bet everything I own and all I can borrow that Marmol kept Woodford’s last two Spring Training pitching performances out of sight to avoid any scrutiny/criticism of his rotation choice. “Hey, Mr. Marmol, every other rotation candidate has been terrible this spring and Woodford’s been great. And he was great last September, in a pennant race, as a starter. So why isn’t he taking Flaherty’s spot?” The selection of Hicks, illogical as it was from the beginning, received zero meaningful scrutiny from the press — and certainly there was no mention of the weird Woodford treatment.June 24, 2022 at 2:34 am #189018
Packy Naughton in the majors, 2021/22:
8 starts 8.51 ERA, .945 OPS allowed
8 relief 0.77 ERA, .508 OPS
And he’s been excellent out of the Memphis bullpen this year, with a 2.04 ERA over 17.2 IP. (Roughly 2.40 FIP.) So. This is not difficult. It is Managing 101. Some guys are good relievers but bad starters. It happens all the bleeping time. Failed starters like Packy Naughton become good relievers every single day — some of them even become great relievers. Naughton should be rounding out the MLB bullpen, right now. Why is it such an excruciating struggle for Marmol to figure this stuff out?
Or Mozeliak suddenly became an idiot. Now, after 14 years as GM, with his 4th manager, he insists on the Pujols stupidity, and the Woodford nonsense, and the Naughton idiocy. Now, after nearly a decade and a half, Mo is confused and doesn’t know which pitchers should be in the majors and which should not. Or who should start and who should relieve. Or which hitters are good versus lefties and which against righties. Maybe someone dropped Mo on his head over the winter.
But I doubt it.June 24, 2022 at 8:52 am #189030wesor1ParticipantFree
Just here to say…I love Bob Reed.June 24, 2022 at 9:07 am #189032Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
Because Memphis lacks a full compliment of starters, pulled into the rotation are Naughton, Aaron Brooks and Tommy Parsons. They join Liberatore, Woodford and Thomas. The Memphis cupboard is thinly stocked.
As they say, you can never have enough quality pitching – as we are seeing again in 2022. This has to be a focus for the Cards at the deadline.June 24, 2022 at 10:06 am #189037
Is it way to early to promote Graceffo to Memphis?June 24, 2022 at 10:08 am #189038gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Let us not forget that Mr. Mozeliak might have some pressure on him as well to produce a winner this year. The Cardinals haven’t been to a World Series in 9 years and haven’t won one in 11 years. I wouldn’t assume he would allow his rookie manager to make all of the personnel decisions, build the roster, and just hope for the best ( I am 99.9% sure that is not what is happening). And this rookie manager receiving so much scorn was hired by whom?June 24, 2022 at 10:50 am #189041
In most MLB organizations, roster decisions are made after discussions between field management and front office personnel, with input from AAA field management. It’s probably the same with the Cardinals.June 24, 2022 at 11:26 am #189043CardsFanInChiTownParticipantFree
Would the Orioles trade Jorge Lopez for Woodford 1-1? He was used as a starter quite a bit in the past, but seems to have put it all together as a full time reliever. He’s also controlled through 2024 (2.5 years remaining). 0.77 ERA/2.36 FIP, over a K per nine, and a .829 WHIP. Woodford is controlled through 2026 for comparison. If the Cards aren’t going to use him, this might fill the needs of both teams and be a win win.
Helsley, Lopez, Gallegos, Cabrera and a healthy Hicks would sure look good if they make the playoffs.
The big three with him and a healthy Hicks would be great.
He’s controlled through 2024 and only $1.5M this year. Might be a bit rich on the prospect side for Mo though. Would Yepez be enough to entice them?June 24, 2022 at 11:38 am #189045CardsFanInChiTownParticipantFree
Ignore the bottom of that post, I’d copied what I’d wrote in the Trade ideas thread and it was to late to edit after I saw it.June 24, 2022 at 2:45 pm #189061
“Just here to say…I love Bob Reed.”
Always nice when one of my parents chimes in. Thanks for the kind words.
“Because Memphis lacks a full complement of starters, pulled into the rotation are Naughton, Aaron Brooks and Tommy Parsons. The Memphis cupboard is thinly stocked.
As they say, you can never have enough quality pitching – as we are seeing again in 2022. This has to be a focus for the Cards at the deadline.”
It sure seems at a glance, that pitching must be a trade deadline focus. But how urgent is it, really?
No matter what is happening in Memphis, maximizing the MLB wins always takes precedent. And therefore Packy Naughton should be in the MLB bullpen — where, in his brief time there he’s been amazingly effective with that 0.77 ERA. And since Sept. 1 of last year, Jake Woodford has thrown nearly 50 MLB innings with a 2.84 ERA. So regardless of what his slider can or cannot do, he obviously should be in the majors. And then, Jordan Hicks is returning soon.
Ideal bullpen: Helsley, Gallegos, Cabrera, Woodford, Naughton, Wittgren, and one or two from among Hicks, Liberatore, Oviedo, Pallante, and Zack Thompson. VerHagen’s ERA and FIP are both over 6.00; get him out of there. Wittgren can pitch back-to-back days, has a strong history, and has an FIP barely over 4.00, so may have been a bit unlucky with his higher ERA. He’s a keep.
You see, I’m not even 100% sure that the roster needs anybody else — if the manager/GM do their jobs correctly. I’m really not. It just needs the best pitchers to be used in the majors, at their best MLB roles. Prior to this year, it almost always happened. The sole glaring exception was back in 2018 when Mo wouldn’t call up AAA dominators Dakota Hudson and Daniel Poncedeleon in May, or even June, despite horrible MLB bullpen struggles. But even that was subtly different, because those guys hadn’t shown any evidence they could get major leaguers out. Not like Packy & Jake have.
“Would the Orioles trade Jorge Lopez for Woodford 1-1? He was used as a starter quite a bit in the past, but seems to have put it all together as a full time reliever. He’s also controlled through 2024 (2.5 years remaining). 0.77 ERA/2.36 FIP, over a K per nine, and a .829 WHIP. Woodford is controlled through 2026 for comparison.”
I like your thinking, ChiTown. But Baltimore has the leverage, so I suspect they’d want more than Woodford. Might have to sweeten with a McGreevy or Tink Hence or at the very least Paniagua. (I’d want to keep Hence, but the others would be in play for me. Not that I want Woodford gone — but the Birds would be doing him a favor, compared to what we’ve witnessed over the past several months.)June 24, 2022 at 8:44 pm #189099MrperkinsParticipantFree
I’ve seen a few posts offering up decent prospects for Lopez of Baltimore. He is having a great year but his career stats are awful and he is 29. Anyone buying right now is going to overpay. When his streak of not giving up a home run ends or his 4bb/9 rate he has this year finally bites him it isn’t going to be pretty. Sure, I might float Nootbaar or Rondon over there but I hope we don’t offer anyone like McGreevy, Hence, or Paniagua. Yes, I know Baltimore will probably get a better offer and I hope they take it. I’d wager Lopez comes back to Earth after a bad game or 2 and we end up being glad for the pitching we Didn’t give up.June 24, 2022 at 8:53 pm #189102MrperkinsParticipantFree
Then again I was hoping the cards would throw decent money (5-7m) at Tepera, McHugh, or Melancon rather than scattering it to the wind on the reclamation projects. The first 2 are having ok seasons (3.5-4 ERA) but Melancon looks like toast in the desert.June 25, 2022 at 6:11 am #189120LeeParticipantPaid - Annual
Woodford is too good to be in aaa
He will be back up very soon! Or dealt somewhere…June 25, 2022 at 10:27 am #189128gscottarParticipantPaid - AnnualJune 25, 2022 at 12:05 pm #189133
Go get ‘em, Woody.
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