June 17, 2022 at 11:14 am #188251
Let’s take a look at how he did against several key opponents last season.
Brewers – In 41 PAs, the Brewers hit .132 against him and had an OBP of .195.
Dodgers – In 26 plate appearances against him the Dodgers hit
.174 with a .269 OBP.June 17, 2022 at 12:34 pm #188262
I see a lot of stat posting about Woodfords career numbers. Saying they aren’t that great. It depends on what you are comparing him to. I’m comparing him to the guys on our team which is what you should be comparing him to. I also don’t just look at numbers comparison between the team. I’m not looking at how Woodford stacks up vs mikolas or waino. That would be absurd. I’m looking at how he stacks up against the fourth or particularly the fifth starter or the guys that we try to fit in there when we need a spot starter or a long reliever. He compares very favorably. Very. It would be like if the Cardinals could do it, if they told mikolas after his last start that hey you have pitched well but we need to see some more break on some of your pitches, we are sending you down to the minors to work on it. It would be absurd but it would be no more absurd than what they are doing to Woodford.June 17, 2022 at 12:58 pm #188265
Cran and Willie are right. No one said he’s a lock for the #3 or #4 or #5 spot in the rotation. But if you look at who has been used there how can you say they have been better. Of the Pitchers that have been called up His ERA at Memphis is better than Rondon, Thompson, Oviedo, Fernandez, and just behind Liberatore. His stats in St Louis last fall and this year are better. Projections are just that. He has produced. Until he does otherwise ( Otherwise being the key word here) he should be up and be used. That is on mo. marmol should be pushing for that. If not he isn’t who needs to be in the dugout.June 17, 2022 at 1:21 pm #188269
Oh we’re going back to that. I’m not a stats guy and because of that I probably don’t belong here. The last time I tried to look up a stat I got 4 different numbers. It’s like the night Pujols got the walk-off hit and they got the “# of times” wrong 3 times in one night (I posted here about it). Then there’s the pitcher’s win-loss record, the RBI, and the reliever’s ERA. In my opinion stats don’t tell the whole story.
Relievers aren’t like starting pitchers. Relievers pitch a minimum of 3 batters and they pitch until they get in trouble. They get bailed out almost every time they pitch, otherwise they wouldn’t take them out. So in my opinion a reliever’s ERA is about as useless as a pitcher’s win-loss record.
I just remember Woodford down the stretch and it wasn’t pretty. And I know his starter ERA and reliever ERA got lumped together.June 17, 2022 at 1:29 pm #188271
sjeff I don’t get where you say Woodford down the stretch wasn’t pretty. Can you explain? His last game he gave up 3 runs in 5 Innings. That was his worst outing of his Sept/Oct . Don’t results matter with you? I’m not much of a stat guy either. But his results contradict what you are saying.June 17, 2022 at 1:34 pm #188272
Well the facts are down the stretch, Woodford pitched well. People keep mentioning relievers stats and the fact they only pitch to three batters. Woodford never hardly ever just pitches to just three batters. He’s been used as a spot starter, long reliever. Hard to believe I have to point that out here. Also far as stats go, baseball is a numbers game so stats are a valuable piece of info though what you see is as valuable as well. Like I said, you can’t compare pitchers the same, you have to compare roles and such.June 17, 2022 at 1:39 pm #188273
Of his 6 appearances coming down the stretch, 5 of them were starts.
9/14 at Brewers –
IP – 5 1/3
H – 2
R – 0
9/9 vs. Dodgers –
IP – 4
R – 1
9/14 at Mets –
IP – 4
H – 4
R – 2
9/21 at Brewers
IP – 5
H – 2
R – 0
5/26 at Cubs –
IP – 5 1/3
H – 6
R – 2June 17, 2022 at 1:40 pm #188274
Yea I don’t know. I remember the game where he had no secondary pitches and had to throw nothing but fastballs. He was successful that game but I remember him getting bailed out often.
There has to be someone here that watched him down the stretch last year. Someone who watched the games, no stats after the fact.June 17, 2022 at 1:42 pm #188275
Yes, those stats after the fact will get you.June 17, 2022 at 1:46 pm #188277
You don’t have to point anything out to me. I got you covered. I already mentioned his starts and reliever ERA are lumped together. And yes, every reliever can pitch to more than 3 batters. I can’t believe I have to point that out here.June 17, 2022 at 1:47 pm #188279
They won’t get me, I don’t use them.June 17, 2022 at 1:49 pm #188280
sjeff, with all due respect, sometimes it’s better to learn than to try to display how much you know. Especially if the facts go against you.June 17, 2022 at 1:50 pm #188281
Finally we agree on something.June 17, 2022 at 1:52 pm #188282
Guys here are respectfully trying to tell you that you may be mistaken. Best to accept that and put down the gloves.June 17, 2022 at 1:53 pm #188283
As I’ve already said it’s my opinion.June 17, 2022 at 2:00 pm #188285bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
I believe I am of the opinion of many of us on this topic. It is more of a relativity question than an absolute one. That being not so much that Woody will be a star, but more that he could be better than some of the tomato cans we throw out there (Naughton, McFarland, those types).
He has shown success at the big league level. So why he has not been given opportunities to pitch this year when others have is frustrating.
Oh, and BR is accurate with Anthony Reyes. Duncan wanted him to be more of a pitch-to-contact hurler, while Reyes tended to want to throw a lot of high heat. I don’t remember him losing his fastball after a 100+ pitch effort, but he did have arm trouble that became obvious after a few appearances with Cleveland.
At one time I think he was ahead of Wainwright in the prospect rankings. It happens. Wasn’t Randal Grichuk drafted ahead of Mike Trout? And I believe back a generation or so ago the Reds drafted Bernie Carbo ahead of Johnny Bench.June 17, 2022 at 2:06 pm #188286
I was at the Sept 9 (if it was a Thursday Day Game) Vs Dodgers. I watched him warm up in the bullpen. As someone at the game by themself you can move about the stadium at will. I remember being impressed that day with the movement on his pitches. If you aren’t a stat guy and you aren’t a results guy what is it you want? To see him locating the ball. Varying the speed on his breaking balls? Did he get in trouble. Most do otherwise other than Pitch count what gets most Pitchers out of a game. As I recall he Pitched into the 5th maybe a hit and walked a batter. Memory is not so good. I recall Reyes replaced him, Pitched well and got the win. That is a pretty good outing for a spot starter. That’s was his worst outing of the month. He got outs, and kept his Team in the game. Isn’t that the bottom line.June 17, 2022 at 3:10 pm #188288
That is the bottom line, KS. Woody doesn’t impress you with his stuff. It’s not overpowering. He just moves the ball well in and out, up and down, changes speeds, works the corners, etc. And gets outs.June 17, 2022 at 3:45 pm #188290
Well sjeff70, you were the one mentioning relievers only have to get three outs and can be bailed out but with Woodford that doesn’t mean anything. If we were talking about McFarlane or wittgren, might be apt but Woodford has generally been used as a long reliever or starter not as a one inning guy. Yes Woodford isn’t really impressive when you watch him pitch but he generally gets the job done. He usually doesn’t give up the big innings and he can pitch effectively for a while not burning the bullpen which is better than a lot of these other yahoos we are trying to throw in there. It’s fine though if you think verhagen and crew are better. Like I said, the Cardinals should use him in a trade and set him free. I guarantee the other team will get the better of that dealJune 17, 2022 at 5:43 pm #188304forsch31ParticipantFree
bc, minor corrections to your end of the year games log:
1. The game you listed as 9/14 @ Brewers was 9/4 and he came in as a reliever.
2. The game you listed as 5/26 at Cubs was 9/26.
3. The last game he started in 2021 was vs. Cubs on 10/3 and he went 5.0 IP with 6 hits and 3 ERs.
Just to make it clear for anyone who wants to look up the games.June 17, 2022 at 8:47 pm #188343mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
Woodford is almost like a sleeper. It’s as if nobody (except kscardfan) has noticed that Woodford is not the same pitcher he was a couple of years ago. His pitches move much more and he locates his pitches better.June 17, 2022 at 8:51 pm #188345mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
That said, I want to add that Woodford got roughed up at Memphis this evening.June 18, 2022 at 8:16 am #188379
I just double checked ESPN game log for Sept. 2021 and what I posted was correct.June 18, 2022 at 11:45 am #18839214NyquisTParticipant
If the FO deemed it necessary to pick up another pitcher and Woodford was pitching for another team, wouldn’t he be the type of guy that the FO would be looking for? Just saying.June 18, 2022 at 12:24 pm #188396
Gotcha, Forsch. Sorry.
9/4 – Mil – 5.1IP/H2/0R
9/9 – LA – 4IP/3H/1R
9/14 – NYM – 4IP/4H/2R
9/21 – Mil – 5IP/2H/0R
9/26 – Cubs – 5.1IP/6H/2R
10/3 – cubs – 5IP/6H/3R
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