Woodford

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  • #195291
    Lee
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    Gscottar, you don’t have to be here in this chat
    If you don’t like the talk about Woodford don’t be here.

    #195301
    bccran
    Participant

    +1

    #195308
    ZTR
    Participant

    Free

    I had forgotten about Matz.

    If Wainwright retires then there is spot but if Flaherty comes back there goes a spot.

    I had written Mikolas off and he came back.

    We will how Quintana continues to perform but he and Montgomery had a great couple of starts each.

    As fragile as arms are having 7-8 starters is fun but probably not realistic moving forward.

    #195311
    forsch31
    Participant

    Free

    Part of the issue is having so many veteran pitchers to fill those starting spots. If they are prospects, it’s a little easier to have that many since you can send a couple down to AAA to stay ready in case of injury.

    #195315
    bccran
    Participant

    Flaherty
    Montgomery
    Mikolas
    Matz
    Hudson

    Penciled in for 2023?

    #195319
    gscottar
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    Paid - Annual

    Gscottar, you don’t have to be here in this chat
    If you don’t like the talk about Woodford don’t be here.

    I am good. Thanks for your concern though.

    #195335
    bccran
    Participant

    Glad you’re good.

    #195354
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Thanks

    #195362
    bccran
    Participant

    You may be good, but it may cause other posters not to be so good. Something you might consider next time you choose to dig others.

    #195363
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I don’t recall digging anyone personally.

    #195368
    bccran
    Participant

    Accusing others of beating a horse (who’s no longer with us) is complaining about those posters. Digging them. You know that. Lee had the right idea. If you don’t care for this thread, just don’t read it or post on it. Thanks.

    #195369
    gscottar
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    I didn’t mention anyone by name but I did question the validity of continuing to beat this drum. Woodford is indeed on the active roster correct? Doesn’t that bring some satisfaction to this year long grievance?

    #195375
    bccran
    Participant

    It actually does, after months of suggesting that he be brought up.

    #195380
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Good. And FWIW I don’t dislike any poster on this board. It is a good group and I try not to make things too personal when we disagree. I have just had a hard time fully understanding this level of obsession over Woodford. Just seems like an unusual place to make such a defiant stand.

    I have been hard on the front office for some of the veteran bullpen pieces they gave roster places to over internal guys. I don’t like it either.

    But, as stl25 and others have pointed out, Woodford is probably your classic AAAA guy who might be a number five starter or swing man best case scenario, therefore, staying in such an obsessive state over him seems a bit over the top. But it is your and Lee’s and anyone else’s right to continue to beat that drum and it is mine and anyone else’s right to question why, as long as we keep it civil.

    #195383
    1982 willie
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    I don’t think that there is any satisfaction to be had just because finally Woodford was called up. Fact is based on the quality of the pitchers we were using or lack of and also the injuries, Woodford to most should have been up sooner. I’m sure management would try to say he improved much while down there but he was pitching just as well before so no that doesn’t work. Woodford is a solid pitcher who at times like all will give up some runs but more often than not he’s just pure solid. He can fill many roles so going forward it’s hard to see how he will be used. Lot depends on flaherty, Hudson, and even matz health and lots of other factors. To me if they end up feeling he’s not good enough next year and he actually was during spring, then they should just trade him at that point to give him some freedom. I believe there are a lot of teams that could use his services and not in the minors.

    #195386
    bccran
    Participant

    Gscottar – the only reason why some of us have seemed so obsessed by the situation is because we watched guys like Wittgren, VerHagen, McFarland, Brooks, Whitley, Fernandez, Walsh, etc. struggle night after night, week after week.

    #195389
    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

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    I see nothing statisticaly tô.indicate Woodford is a AAAA player. This is coming from someone who thought Woodford would be a AAAA player at best. Só far he hás proven me wrong.

    #195401
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    Just seems like an unusual place to make such a defiant stand.

    Defiant stand? Whatever you want to call it, what’s unusual or illogical about it? Seemed like a very apropos issue to keep raising. Cards sure kept trotting out garbage to the mound over and over. Woodford had done much better than the favored garbage in limited reps. Seemed like an easy alternative to give a little more opportunity. Just because you and another like minded poster think he’s AAAA doesn’t make it so, but yep, trotting out cute memes and making references to unrelated movies is a compelling way to provide a counterpoint and really shows great respect for others’ views.

    #195411
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Actually I have agreed with you guys all along that Woodford should have been on the roster instead of Mo’s castoffs. The main reason is that I think internal guys should get first chance. But in my opinion there are other Cardinal farm hands that could have had a 12 page thread wondering why they didn’t get a chance.

    What about Rondon? Was he better than Mo’s castoffs?

    What about Oviedo?

    What about Thomas?

    Rondon was giving up for nothing. Oviedo was traded to Pittsburgh.

    What about Zach Thompson? Why is he not in St. Louis?

    Why didn’t these guys get 12 page threads? Is Woodford that much better?

    #195422
    bccran
    Participant

    Sure Woodford is better than those guys. The record proves it.

    #195424
    gscottar
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    Paid - Annual

    Which record are you referring to?

    #195426
    bccran
    Participant

    Both AAA and MLB.

    #195427
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I am not sure which specific numbers you are referring to. My recollection is that Woodford, Oviedo, and Rondon were ranked pretty close to each other in the prospect rankings. Woodford has had a slightly better MLB career but not demonstrably better. I think Jake’s career WAR is .2.

    #195429
    1982 willie
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    Oviedo was given lots more chances and while he was at times real good, I wouldn’t consider him as good. Rondon maybe you could argue should have had more opportunity than he got but I never saw him that much. Points been that Woodford up until this year had been given a good shot and his numbers were fine. Point is due to the fact he’s had the chances and by the eye test has been fairly successful compared to others, not going to deal with stats. But by all that, you call him up and see what he can do. If he messes it up then you do whatever but at least give him the opportunity to do it. All those other guys I guess you can create a thread for each and see how much caring each one has.

    #195431
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Woodford is called up but I don’t think he is going to be getting any starts anytime soon. Too many guys ahead of him. Maybe he can do something out of the pen.

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