November 20, 2020 at 1:51 pm #147831
This just a bunch of nonsense being talked about by a radio personality having a slow day.
You just summed up 95% of the offseason.November 20, 2020 at 2:21 pm #147836
95% might be conservative, but there are segments of the population who eat up anything posted, whether it makes sense or not. It is sort of like all the rest of what is going on around us. 😉
Since this came out, I’ve seen a number of fan tweets drooling over the idea of Adell in the Cardinals OF. As I understand it, the radio proposal was this: The Cardinals would take on Upton and his $51 MM in dead money plus give up their best two pitching prospects in Liberatore and Thompson just to get Adell.November 20, 2020 at 4:56 pm #147846
I’m not convinced Adell / Upton is a wash, because Adell has shown that BB/K for his professional career. LAA would need to add slightly to Adell, one of SS Jackson or Paris, to dump Upton, and receive no players in return.November 20, 2020 at 5:24 pm #147850November 20, 2020 at 5:41 pm #147851mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
Sorry I didn’t do this to begin with. Hear is the link for the Zack Tho0mpson interview:
The Thompson interview comes on at 4:15 which is 2 hours/15 minutes into the show.November 20, 2020 at 6:43 pm #147852
Here is a stats-based view of Renfroe. Sadly, a career 106 OPS+ would be clustered at the top of the Cards outfielders.
If the Rays let you walk, there’s probably a reason.
— Brandon Kiley (@BKSportsTalk) November 20, 2020November 20, 2020 at 7:15 pm #147855
Renfro is a lefty masher, career .912 ops in 495 PA’s.November 21, 2020 at 10:22 am #147882ILcardfanParticipantFree
I think the cards should do whatever they can to load up for 2022 and beyond when the next wave of young talent is expected to arrive. That probably means sticking to what we have for 2021 and in effect punting on this upcoming season. Should then be sellers at the deadline, Mikolas and Miller would be candidates to be moved if pitching decent. Fowler and Carpenter could both be candidates as well if they are hitting at all, with both having expiring contracts they might be attractive rentals.November 21, 2020 at 10:34 am #14788414NyquisTParticipant
ILcardfan….. some good looking ahead points made.November 21, 2020 at 11:27 am #147889
Ilcardfan, I agree with your sentiments. That is exactly what the Cards should do but I highly doubt they will. They will try to cobble together their usual B minus team with eyes on squeaking into the playoffs on the last day and going on a run. That has been their business model for several years now so it probably won’t change.
I would like to regroup, put together a C minus team for one year, then be in position for a run of many A level teams.November 21, 2020 at 11:42 am #147890
Back to the Angels idea for a minute, I understand the attraction of Adell. Most services had him ranked as a Top 5 overall prospect going into 2020, although his milb numbers were good but not great. He has a high ceiling though.
The problem is that deal would have to be restructured differently to make sense for the Cardinals. Justin Upton is owed a whopping $52.7M over the next two years!! Yikes! As Brian pointed out Upton isn’t much better than Fowler.
For Upton and Adell I would offer the Angels Fowler, CMart, O’Neill, Gomber, and Rondon. Now the Angels probably wouldn’t accept that offer but maybe there is a compromise somewhere.
The first part of the trade would be Upton for Fowler and CMart. The Cardinals would be taking on $52.7M and the Angels would be taking on $28.2M so advantage Angels. Fowler is good buddies with Joe Maddon and CMart would slide into their beleaguered rotation.
The second part of the deal would be Adell for O’Neill, Gomber, and Rondon. Adell has a much higher ceiling than those three but the Angels would be receiving three decent players with moderately high ceilings and Gomber would be another immediate rotation piece. They would probably want someone better but I am not giving up Liberatore. I might give up Thompson but the Angels are in win now mode so they need players who can contribute now. Mike Trout and Joe Maddon aren’t getting any younger.November 21, 2020 at 11:45 am #147891
At first glance Hunter Renfroe looks like a similar player as Tyler O’Neill. Am I wrong?November 21, 2020 at 1:17 pm #1479001964cardsParticipantPaid - Annual
gscottar, I am not too excited about either Upton or Renfroe. It doesn’t look like Upton has much left in the tank headed into his age 33 season. I am not sure Renfroe is an upgrade over what we already have.November 21, 2020 at 2:30 pm #147907
1964, I don’t think anyone, including the Cardinals, are excited about Upton. That idea was hatched as a way to essentially buy a prospect.
And I agree that Renfroe wouldn’t be much of an upgrade over what we have.November 21, 2020 at 4:13 pm #147916
We hope O’Neill can develop into Hunter Renfro type of production. Tyler has started 100 games, Hunter 368. It’s a tough comparable with differing stages of their careers. Tyler is a poor mans Renfro, at this time offensively.
November 23, 2020 at 10:00 am #148003
- This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by jj-cf-stl.
I read that little article on LaStella as an option, and the more I think about it i think i like it (only because i am pessimistic on the FO making enough major moves)
Still, I wonder what LaStella will end up demanding.
I think the FO has to much of an ego to cut bait on their young OFers and are so gun-shy right now to repeat the Arozarena, Mercado, Voit deals they want to feel they have had a “proper” look at some of the guys…at least with ONeill and Thomas…and with Fowler having to play i am not confident they will adjust the OF that much if at all…but the offseason is young i guess
sign Ha-Seong Kim
re-sign Yadi and Waino
then: (based on that one guessing article that said CMart for Sanchez was possible and DH for NL, also i saw a guessing offer of Gray, Mcmahon and an pitcher for Sanchez and Frazier somewhere)
trade CMart + Ponce + Knizner for Clint Frazier and Gary Sanchez
trade Edman + Bader for Brad Keller (freeing KC up to trade Whit more easily…could offer Oviedo in this too as i think Keller is worth more and still has good control)
Jack, Keller, Waino, Mik, Kim….Gomber, Woodford, Libertore, Reyes etc.
Hicks, Gallegos, Miller, Reyes, Gant, Genesis, Helsley, Webb
LaStella (2b), Carlson, DeJong, Goldy, Sanchez (DH), Kim (3b), Yadi, Fowler, Frazier
Oneill, Carp, Thomas, Sosa, Ravelo
rotate Fowler and Frazier based on matchups..Frazier + Oneill for Lefties and Fowler + Thomas for righties (not slam dunk numbers though so plenty of rotation probable)
Sanchez as backup catcher isnt the worst and his bat as a DH still play. Sanchez, LaStella, Kim and Frazier up the offense without sacrificing defense much if at all.
just thinking out loudNovember 23, 2020 at 1:00 pm #1480491964cardsParticipantPaid - Annual
I wonder if the Cards would have interest in Cesar Hernandez. He appears to be a better hitter than Wong and can hold his own on defense. Just not sure of the price tag.
Signing Hernandez would solidify 2B for two or three years. You could move Edmund to third and Carp to the bench. I think this move improves both the infield offense and defense.November 23, 2020 at 7:12 pm #148086
BR has Kolten Wong as Hernandez #1 comparable. MLBTR expects Cesar to sign a 1/6mil contract and Wong a 2/16mil. Cesar as a career leadoff man does have the OBP to replace Wong in the batting order and he does hit LHP’s better than Kolten.November 24, 2020 at 8:15 am #148118
Now the Braves have two new starters. Waino can forget it.
BREAKING: Charlie Morton has agreed to terms on a one-year, $15 million deal with the Braves. The deal was negotiated by Andrew Lowenthal and BB Abbott of Jet Sports. It’s the largest free agent contract so far this offseason.
— Mark Feinsand (@Feinsand) November 24, 2020November 24, 2020 at 9:28 am #148126stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
These recent contracts suggest to me that either:
1) Some teams are well under even their COVID budget and willing to spend to make their team better.
2) Most teams now have a better grasp on what revenues will look like next year and have baked that into free agent offerings.
This is now three pitchers (Ray, Smyly and Morton) who have gotten more than I expected them to get. Perhaps it’s the one year phenomenon and none of them have gotten what I think they would have last year, but it suggests that a win on the free agent market will be closer to the $9M we have grown to expect than the $4M that it seemed it may fall to at the onset of the market.
This means, to me, that there may be a few crazy bargains for teams willing to wait til late in the process, but nothing like some of us may have hoped for will materialize for the Cards. Pederson will likely get $10-12M on a one year deal, and even a fallback like Rosario will probably get $8M or so. It also bodes well for Wong possibly getting a multi year deal in the $20M range, or perhaps above his previous offer with St Louis for one year.
To me, that means that St Louis, if they are serious when they cry poor, is unlikely to add anything beyond a Jedd Gyorko type. To some, that may sound positive, but what I mean is a guy that is very slightly above the “spring training invite” group and is probably going to offer you a marginal platoon advantage, and nothing more.November 24, 2020 at 10:41 am #148128
I like how ATL tries for one year FA contracts, especially the expensive ones like Donaldson, Ozuna and Morton.November 24, 2020 at 11:00 am #148130
A one year obviously never becomes a multi-year burden contract. The budget always has built in flexibility to adapt to next winters roster, even if the funds need to go in-house to arb player raises. Young players that are deemed ready never get blocked which allows the funds to float from 3B, to LF, to a SP’r. A very flexible approach to meeting changing roster needs.November 24, 2020 at 12:04 pm #148132
I like the idea of Cesar Hernandez nice find i think i coudl be fine with that kind of move…though LaStella feels more stable im just not sure how much he will demand
I also saw that the Rays would listen on Blake Snell, still pretty cheap and definitely good
I wonder if we could swoop in and grab him building off the Arozarena trade dealings, and with the success of Arozarena perhaps some of the other players they were eyeballing might garner more value.
We need offense, but Blake Snell frees us up significantly on dealing from our depth of pitching to acquire true impact level bats
I am still high on Ha-Seong Kim and I think his money may be lower in the market and the general unknown of hitting coming across the ocean, but i’d prefer an Arenado or Lindor
re-sign Waino(1yr) and Yadi(2yrs)
trade for Snell (Edman + Oviedo + ONeill + Gomber)
trade for Merrifield (Thompson + Bader + Ravelo)
trade for CFrazier (CMart + JWilliams/Thorres for Frazier)
Jack, Snell, Mik, Waino, Kim/etc….Libertore/Reyes/Ponce/Woodford
Hicks, Reyes, Miller, Gallegos, Helsley, Genesis, Webb, Gant
Merrifield(2), Carlson(LF), DeJong(ss), Goldy(1), Kim(3), Yadi(c), Fowler(RF), Frazier(CF)
Knizner, Sosa, Carp, Thomas, FA-UTIL (Merrifield can play all OF so can be anything)November 24, 2020 at 12:07 pm #148133
NEWS: Ha-seong Kim, one of the top position players in Korea, will be posted tomorrow, according to my friend @Jeeho_1. The #BlueJays are among the teams that have evaluated him closely prior to the posting process, source says. @MLB @MLBNetwork https://t.co/UYHZeOUJmY
— Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) November 24, 2020November 24, 2020 at 12:20 pm #148135
Tomorrow eh? fun
I would have thought they felt good about their infield depth with all that youth and upside.
I hope we were also scouting him too, our inroads with our own Kim perhaps helping some
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