December 9, 2019 at 4:25 pm #116314December 9, 2019 at 4:31 pm #116316
I was listening to MLB radio a few minutes ago and Casey Stern was advocating a trade of Lindor to the Cardinals for Hudson, JMart, and Bader. His idea would be the Cards would move DeJong to 3B. JP Morosi thought that was one of the best trade ideas he had heard recently.
I was listening to this driving down the road and thinking to myself “yeah that is not going to happen for multiple reasons.” The Cards aren’t going to add that much payroll and they aren’t going to put Carp on the bench while making $18.5 million.
You would think that all of these MLB talking heads who have been around so long would know by now how the Cardinals operate. I don’t mean that as a criticism to the Cardinals. I just can’t figure out why we on this board are the only ones who can figure it out.
December 9, 2019 at 4:54 pm #116321
- This reply was modified 8 months ago by gscottar.
Noting against these talking heads specifically, but there is no way they are going to understand any one of the 30 teams as well as we do this one. They throw out provocative ideas and hungry fans of at least 29 teams lap it up.
On the specific proposal, I don’t believe the Cards would trade two starting pitchers under cost control because they would have to be replaced with expensive free agents. Plus they give up 5 years of Hudson, 4 of Martinez and 4 years of Bader for two of Lindor, plus take on at least $5 MM in salary in doing so. Not to mention the dead Carpenter money, as you noted…
In summary, the Cards would give up a lot simply to put Carpenter on the bench in favor of Lindor.
If the Cards were to make a blockbuster move, it would not be to scuttle starting pitching to add to the infield, which is already a strength.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln…December 9, 2019 at 5:10 pm #116326
Well the specific proposal included Jose Martinez, not Carlos Martinez. Nevertheless, I agree it is highly unlikely.
December 9, 2019 at 5:38 pm #116331
- This reply was modified 8 months ago by gscottar.
Sorry, I misread. Thanks for clarifying. JMart instead of CMart would not be as bad – except then, the Cards would be taking on about an additional $14 MM in 2020 salary plus giving up on Carpenter. If they plan to keep the payroll roughly flat, how would they shed money elsewhere? That is why I thought it was CMart in the trade idea instead. If you put Fowler or Carpenter in the deal (ignoring their no-trade protection) rather than JMart, then you might have something where the money works, not that the Indians would probably bite.December 10, 2019 at 9:22 am #116359thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
Good call on the finances GScott…i think i forgot about Peralta’s hit…
i liek MAdBum…but at 24 (even though he’d be worth it i think)…i’d rather upgrade the offense…drop him from the plans…
and gets us to ~188, which is high…but not unmanageable with the contracts that could come off after the season… also I think we have to up the Lindor give too…I’d add in a Montero or good pitcher or both maybe…or consider JMart if they are interested…
also..target some reclamation projects and minor league deals with ST invites…Aaron Sanchez and Taijuan Walker looks worth a gamble as both have shown quite an upside and arent that old
Also…i saw the yankees were considering moving JA Happ…if they threw in a hefty portion of his salary he might be worth a look…his left handedness plays and he gets K’s…getting out of the AL east probably would help him too
none of my deal ideas are absolutes (i think)…they are starting points for discussion and try to be thought provoking even if the specifics arent absolute
The point was…improve the offense through trade that doesnt hurt us defensively as well as provides us a true STAR…via Peralta, Marte and Lindor
look to FA for a left handed pitcher, as well as a better backup for Yadi is we are going to make deals (thus needing Knizner probably for them)
the better consistency on the offensive side of things from MArte, Lindor and PEralta is what the team is lacking….yes they’d be expensive to trade for and hard to watch other players play for other teams…but we’d have a scary lineup that more could make up for any pitching concerns
our pitching wasnt bad last year…out bullpen has more depth than people think, not to mention having an AS level closer returning and several starters who can relieve too…if we brought in a couple ST invites for vets…and Sanchez/Walker on a deal…we could have to plug any holes:
depth after the starting 5 (Jack, Hud, CMart, Mik, Waino)
Sanchez + FA ST invite + Ponce + Reyes + Gomber + Woodford + Genesis + Helsley + Rondon + maybe Thompson
even if we dealt from this strength in deals we’d STILL have crazy potential depth here
After Carlson and maybe Williams what kind of depth do we have for the offense?
Marte + Lindor for at least 2 years would be big…Peralta for a year would give Carlson a year to warm up instead of being forced into production…
but for discussion sakke let’s reduce it:
Marte + Lindor + Romine + 10-15mil SP left hander + Sanchez would probably be enough to revamp the offense and protect the pitching
Marte and Lindor require heavy pieces going back…but gives us at least a 2yr window to keep Lindor and compete..Marte is no slouch…
DeJong + JMart + Montero + Fagalde
Knizner + Randy + OviedoDecember 10, 2019 at 12:13 pm #116371December 10, 2019 at 1:08 pm #116377
If they come out of this week with nothing else, having the backup catcher situation figured out would be some positive progress. Weiters would be ideal to have back with Knizner getting regular AB’s and catching experience in Memphis and potentially the 26th man at some points to give Yadi some actual rest.
Since the 40 man is full, the problem I see is him signing a minor league deal even if he can be added as soon as they can put Hicks on the 60 day DL, which is all the more reason they need to thin out the OF “logjam” soon. They know who they want to keep and who is in the future plans undoubtedly.
Sidenote about the catchers: Hopefully Ivan Herrera is Yadi’s shadow in ST, how he isn’t a top 100 prospect is beyond me, other than he didn’t sign for enough.December 10, 2019 at 1:33 pm #116379CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
I think Mo would say the backup catcher position is figured out.
Unless you are positive that you are going to extend Molina or that Knizner wont cut it I think you want Knizner being Yadi’s shadow this year.December 10, 2019 at 2:04 pm #116382
which is all the more reason they need to thin out the OF “logjam” soon. They know who they want to keep and who is in the future plans undoubtedly.
Are you sure about that? They have had ample opportunity to thin out the OF “logjam” and yet it still exists.December 10, 2019 at 2:23 pm #116384
Knizner is not going to get to start more than maybe once a week or come in after the score is lopsided. I’ve read multiple places that his catching could still use some work and it would be better for him to get everyday work behind the plate and 4-5 AB’s per day vs per week.
That’s all just random things I’ve put together, but it makes sense as long as they can get a Weiters type to keep him in AAA.
GScott, they have to have an internal ranking of how they view the potential of the OF’s. Meaning if they are in a discussion and a team wants Arozarena or Thomas, they have their preference as to who can help more in 2020 and into the future.
Not feeling as if they are getting enough value in return and no lack of urgency to do so would be the likely reason it still exists. Just my opinion.December 10, 2019 at 2:43 pm #116386
Other than 40-man roster space, which is not yet a problem, what is the urgency to address the “logjam”? None of the young outfielders are out of options. So what if Memphis has a really good outfield again in 2020?
I would make trades to make the team better in a place of need, not jettison players to clear perceived roster jams.
Now, if multiples could be traded for one star, I would get it, but those kinds of trades do not grow on trees.December 11, 2019 at 12:26 am #116439
To have space to make additions? As of right now they are stuck, it would be better to get something back for one or two of them than just lose them, and anyone worth signing isn’t taking a minor league deal.December 11, 2019 at 9:21 am #116461
Yep, it would seem logical to deal from a surplus to shore up a weakness, no?
December 11, 2019 at 3:41 pm #116507thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
- This reply was modified 7 months, 4 weeks ago by gscottar.
Rockies are seemingly willing to listen on Arenado.
he makes 35 million until 2026, and is 28 right now and it ends at his age 35 (far from TOO old). He has an opt out in 2021 too.
He is expensive but he is arguably one of the top 5 all around players in baseball and maybe the best defender in baseball since Ozzie
He would take major prospects, but he solves 3b and our star problem as well as any concerns about the middle of the order.
If there is a guy worth adding that pushes our payroll to or above the luxury tax this is the guy.
Gorman + Thompson + Bader/ONeill enough?
December 11, 2019 at 5:15 pm #116535
- This reply was modified 7 months, 4 weeks ago by thejager.
I think it would take more than that Jager, I’m sure Gorman and Thompson could be a start along with at least one of the OFs.
Since he’s only 28, if he was a FA he would easily get another 8 years at 35M. I don’t see the Cards going for it due to the yearly investment and acquisition cost. If they were, we would have at least heard someone mention the Cards being tied to Rendon even if it was someone who thought Ozzie was still playing.December 12, 2019 at 4:12 pm #116640December 12, 2019 at 4:43 pm #116647mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
No one knows what the Dodgers are going to do regarding Arenado and Lindor. But if the the Dodgers would acquire Arenado, that would put Lindor back in play. I doubt if there is another team in MLB that would offer their top two, highly regarded prospects for a two-year rental of Lindor. So that would put the Cardinals in play for acquiring Lindor assuming that he would fit into their plans and their budget, and that the Indians would still be willing to deal him. I’d love to see the Cardinals acquire Lindor for a sensible price. Dejong could move to third and Carpenter could move to LF. And if Carpenter could regain whatever he lost of his hitting ability, that would make for as good a starting lineup as there is in the game. (As far as I know it’s still okay to dream, or maybe I should say ‘fantasize’.)December 12, 2019 at 5:21 pm #116650
Would Colorado trade within the division (Dodgers)?December 12, 2019 at 5:44 pm #116652mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
I didn’t think of that. I don’t know of a team that could/would make a better offer for Arenado than the Dodgers.December 13, 2019 at 6:22 am #116670GameCardParticipantFree
From Baseball Trade Rumors
The Cardinals could emerge as legitimate suitors for free-agent center fielder Shogo Akiyama, as Mark Saxon of The Athletic reports that they’ve “scouted him extensively.” The 31-year-old Akiyama, who is coming off a successful run in Japan’s Nippon Professional Baseball, would give the Cardinals a lefty-hitting option in the outfield. That’s the type of player president of baseball operations John Mozeliak has said he’d like to add.December 13, 2019 at 7:13 am #116672
I saw that the Cardinals signed their old farm hand Rob Kaminsky to a minor league deal. It appears he had a pretty good year in his first full year with the Indians, the next year he had only one start and has pitched out of the pen ever since.
His 2019 results in AA were great, AAA was an entirely (5.1 BB/9) different story. Since being switched to relief, at first glance his K’s have gone up, but his BB’s have gone up more. I didn’t recall that being a huge issue when the Cardinals had him the first time and the stats back that up.
Overall, a great MILB signing in my opinion, and maybe they have seen something or know something that could help get the BB’s figured out. It seems like he’s been around forever, but he’s only going into his 25 Y/O season, so it’s a low risk deal that could end up paying big dividends IF he figures out how to throw strikes consistently coming out of the pen.December 13, 2019 at 9:33 am #116688
I don’t think the Rockies would trade Arenado to the Dodgers unless there was a massive overpay and that isn’t the Dodgers style at all. Like I have said before, under Friedman the Dodgers operate much like the Cardinals. They will shell out money for internal extensions but they don’t like dealing top prospects and they don’t like big free agent signings. The question is will Friedman act more aggressive than normal since he is under pressure to deliver a World Series title?December 13, 2019 at 9:34 am #116689
I like the Lindor to the Cardinals idea in theory but we probably wouldn’t like the asking price.December 13, 2019 at 10:19 am #116694
The headline of this article doesn’t make much sense but the content of the article is humorous in the way he describes the Cardinals as being all over the map in what they are going to do this winter. That crafty Mo knows how to spin the language.
In today’s @stltoday: Market is begging #STLCards to bolster rotation with a lefty. If the answer for the lineup is going to be hope, the starting pitching needs to give opponents little. https://t.co/ccsT0mVRA9
— Ben Frederickson (@Ben_Fred) December 13, 2019
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