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I’ve been clamoring for the Cards to trade CMart for over a year now, but if his checkups are showing positive signs, that information can be shared. I have no doubt in regards to his physical talent, but he does not care one bit about living up to that potential (trusted 2nd hand account). Now is the time to get as much as they can out of him before he has zero value.
Secondly, we’ve seen in the past how an overused reliever just never gets back to what he was. John Gant has value as of today, and he was the reason they were able to have a bridge to Hicks and get through the first few months. At 1.5M, almost every team would jump on that opportunity.
The Padres are looking for several proven and potentially high level starters, CMart (if showing signs of health) fits that bill perfectly and at a reasonable AAV.
Cardinals Send:
1) Carlos Martinez – 11.7M in 20-21, and if he’s producing, 17M and 18M options for 22-23
2) Ponce de Leon – >600k, 5 years of control left, 3.67 ERA over 12 starts, would become their 3/4 starter
3) John Gant – 1.5 Arb projection
4) Johan Oviedo
5) Seth Elledge – Based on his showing in the AFL, he either already is, or almost ready for a MLB bullpen
6) Ramon Urias – To team up with his brother, good PR story for them if he makes it to SD and he’s not likely to see STL
AND throw in Leone if they want him! hahCardinals Get:
1) Kirby Yates – 1 year left and has a 6.5M (projection), perfect backend guy to not rush Hicks
2) Luis Patino – RHSP, Top 35 prospect among all the major rankings
3) Xavier Edwards – 2B/SS, top 100 prospect, over A/A+, with Tatis and Urias, he is completely blocked. His ETA is right in line with when the Wong options run out.
4) Adrian Morejon – LHSP, Top 200 prospect
5) Joey Castillo – LHP, their #16 prospect, started in 2019, only 19 and made it to A+, at the worst he becomes a good lefty in the penThe bullpen would look quite great with Yates, Gallegos, Miller, Helsley, Brebbia, Gomber, Webb, Junior, Cabrera, with Whitley, Hicks, R. Ramierez, etc as options later in the year.
The Cardinals would also save $6M for 2020 which could be used to offset a LHSP for the rotation.
How much more would the Cardinals need to include to get that package back?
Carioca, shedding a spot or two would be an added benefit for the Cards of course, but I see that as a hold up as well. Morejon and Yates are 40 man guys, but Patino and Edwards have at least 2 years before they have to be added (I believe).
If I were Mo, I’d be much more than happy with CMart and Gant for Yates and Patino due to CMart.
CFCT, what i was trying to say was the opposite – SD would suffer from taking on too many 40 man guys.
I understand what you meant, CMart and Gant for Yates and Patino would only be adding one to their 40 man. It is very well known that they are looking to add SP’s so I don’t think 1 additional spot would be a major deterrent to them. Gant would help offset losing Yates was my thinking there, and for the Cards, those are two pieces that it’s time to move on from while they still have value and a change of scenery could potentially help out both.
I would have to believe, with his job potentially on the line, that first proposal might really interest Preller. Adding CMart, and an above average starter without giving up their very top guys would be appealing.
Why would the Padres give up their closer and a top prospect for a guy with a bum shoulder and (according to you) a substance abuse problem? I’m not sure I see how they gain in that trade.
(Fwiw I don’t think we gain either. Patino will be very lucky to turn into what we already have in Cmart and Yates is a rental)
St25, They give up their closer, which they only have 1 year of control over, because they realize that they aren’t a true playoff contender just yet in 2020. The Cardinals have Hicks coming back mid year and Gallegos, however, due to Hicks timeline and maybe one more year of experience needed for Gallegos, having one of the best closers for 1yr/6.5M is exactly the sort of guy they should be going after. The years of control over CMart and his high upside is what makes him attractive to a team that is 2-3 years away from being a true contender and competing with the Dodgers.
Probably more importantly, Preller’s job right now is to get the Padres to 81+ wins in 2020, which is not at all out of the question, but CMart and Ponce in their rotation is going to win more games compared to Yates vs his replacement at closer. Patino is a bit small, but as a worst case scenario, he becomes an ace out of the pen.
Side note, Joey Cantillo (I was autocorrected to Castillo) that I mentioned in my original post is definitely one that they should be targeting to get somehow. I’ve read up on him since that post, and he could actually stick as a big lefty starter. With 11.6/2.7 K/BB as a 19 year old in A/A+, it seems the stuff and control must be quite good. That’s purely speculation based on numbers and words from a computer of course.
CFICT…thanks for your explanation. My question would be…if fans are aware that Carlos has issues with alcohol and/or drugs and the Cards have questioned his work ethic publicly before, won’t other teams see the same thing? I’m just not seeing how we get fair value for him at this point unless he has a rebound 2020.
I’m basing it on solid 2nd hand information, not what is likely fully known. Preller is under a lot of pressure, and it’s something he could be sold on.
Grandal to the White Sox. That takes one big name away from a rival (which was expected).
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28130356/yasmani-grandal-white-sox-agree-four-year-73m-deal
Grandal gambled on a one-year deal last winter, delivered, and has now cashed in. Good for him and good for the NL Central that he moved to the AL.
Apparently Yasmani Grandal and Will Smith have decided that they are going to take their first good offers instead of chasing every last dollar which could take until February or March with no guarantees. After seeing what has happened the last two winters I would say that is a wise strategy.
Teams that have talked to him say he's seeking a 1-year, Donaldson-esque deal at a high AAV or a 2-year deal north of JA Happ (2 years, $34M). Also open to 3 years at a lower AAV.
Hamels has been linked to Phil & SD. But logical fits include Min, Angels, StL, Atl, Mil, Hou, etc
— Jayson Stark (@jaysonst) November 22, 2019
gscottar, great point about Smith and Grandal striking early. I know you always get riled up with I mention Boras, but it should be no surprise that neither of these two players to sign fast are his clients. With Boras clients including most all of this year’s top free agents, these non-premier players may set the tone for the market, instead of past years, when the big boys signed first and the others followed. I think this change, if if becomes prevalent, is a good thing.
I like the idea of pursuing Yates, and should concentrate on that. Granted, there would need to be an extension window to add 2 to 3 more years to his contract. Perhaps Whitley and Adolis Garcia might be enough.
I like the idea of pursuing Hamels but not at those prices. $17M to $20 per year at his age?? No thanks.
He can reunite with Merlot Joe with LAA.
How about another Arizona trade for a guy with a year left before free agency?
Another LH starter to keep an eye on: Robbie Ray.
Has one year left before free agency, with a projected 2020 salary thru arb of $10.8M (via Spotrac).
Other teams say the Diamondbacks seem more open to moving him than in the past. Seeking (what else?) controllable pitching.
— Jayson Stark (@jaysonst) November 22, 2019
I think Robbie Ray would be very good for the Cardinals but when I think of an Arizona guy with one year of control left I think of David Peralta. Maybe we could trade for both?
CMart, JMart, Adolis for Ray and Peralta.
I keep coming back to looking at getting Alex Wood. Likely a make good contract, with a vesting option for a second year.
I like Ray (he’s been my top target since the season ended) but no way in the world I’m trading Carlos Martinez to get him.
The only way to accommodate Ray and/or Peralta in our world of self imposed payroll constraints would be to move another considerable salary, hence CMart. I doubt Arizona would have any interest in Carp or Fowler.
Again, you don’t trade 4 years of a guy who’s been better than either Ray or Peralta for 2 years of total control of both. And said salary constraints don’t exist on the level of adding the salary of a guy like Ray. That’s Dewallet posturing, although I agree if we were talking about adding $20M+ salary.
Our current payroll is $158M, which is very close to the 2019 total. DeWitt and the FO have indicated that 2020 payroll will be about the same as 2019. That may be posturing but at this point I am going to take their word for it.
So in order to accommodate Ray and Peralta in the scenario described above the Cardinals would have to move some salary, with the CMart being the likely candidate IMO. I am aware of the team control aspect but let’s also remember that the Cardinals don’t even know what they have in CMart in 2020. Is he a starter that is going to give them 175-200 innings? If so that is great but that seems like a huge IF right now.
So, the Yanks aren’t planning to eat $26 MM on Ellsbury, after all. Now it makes more sense. If they lose, they are no worse off than they were prior.
Yankees plan not to pay Jacoby Ellsbury for 2020 after releasing him. JE would then be the one to file grievance to recover the $26M withheld by team. NYY claim is JE used outside nonapproved docs. Hasn’t played in 2 yrs @nypostsports 1st reported NYY will try to recoup $
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) November 22, 2019
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