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Drew Pomeranz (if he commits to being a reliever) with his 1.88 ERA and 15.7 K/9 or .837 WHIP could look like a steal like Andrew Miller back when he was converted. 2nd Giants option would be Tony Watson, which is assuming he will decline his player option unless he’s hurt more than advertised.
I like the Pomeranz or Watson idea. Both would be very good additions. I was watching Pomeranz in the wild card game last night. He throws a lot harder than I thought he did. He was hitting 97-98 with ease.
Of course with Miller, Webb, and Cabrera the Cards may feel they are covered on the left side of the pen already. Personally I think we can stand an upgrade there. My dream is Brad Hand but I know it is highly unlikely.
With the expanded rosters, it seems like teams will be forced to go with more position players (13 max pitchers through August and 14 in September) so it will be interesting to see how teams maneuver their benches and bullpens. Will having 5 reserves mean keeping a guy like Jmart as basically a strictly pinch hitter? Will the “super utility” be less important? We know there technically won’t be any LOOGYs but having lefty relief will still be important.
In some ways, the Cards’ depth might be a benefit as they could mix and match bench guys as pinch hitters to match up better against the more exposed bullpen talent.
That’s a good question. I think most teams tended to carry 13 pitchers on their 25 man rosters already. We could use it for a ‘designated pinch hitter’ which is what JMart could become on this team, or other teams might use it on a guy who can’t hit but can pinch run and be a late inning defensive replacement (Billy Hamilton?).
If you have a good super utility guy like Edman, you probably still use him to keep him in the lineup and give your regulars a day off here and there. But this helps teams who don’t have that. It probably means Munoz is expendable and they can go with Sosa, but since he can have another year in the minors maybe they value giving him PT in Memphis over being a superior backup at SS.
If you have good arms with options, you probably don’t need to use it on an extra reliever and can just send guys up and down to keep your BP fresh even if you still just carry 12 pitchers, which is what we seemed to do. Even with 13 position players you still have to make a choice to keep one of O’Neill, Randy, JMart or Yairo off the roster assuming we sign a legitimate MLB left fielder. With 14 position players you can have all those guys or Sosa over Yairo to backup those middle IF positions. I’ll admit I dont know who has options left in our bullpen that this is even a possibly next year.
I would like to see JMart moved this winter so we can give Ravelo or Nogowski a chance to play that role. I feel those guys can hit as well as JMart but should have a better glove, assuming Ravelo or Nogowski can play the OF a bit.
I think my preferred 13 position players next year of the guys that we have already on the roster would be :
C-Yadi, Knizner
IF-Goldy, Wong, Dejong, Carp, Ravelo
IF/OF-Edman
OF-O’Neill, Bader, Fowler, Arozarena (Carlson at some point, in a dream world)Of course this doesn’t account for potential outside acquisitions. We could be in the market for some kind of lefty OF help or maybe Justin Williams will impress enough.
Since no one played my trivia game, the one and only Otis Bernard Gilkey hit 52 HRs as a Cardinal in 2398 plate appearances over 6 seasons.
Otis and Ray Lankford, as I recall, were very exciting to watch and root for back in the early 90s because the Cards didn’t have much else to root for at the time.
I knew the Otis part but didn’t know the number of homers. Also, I enjoyed following Ray Lankford a lot. That outfield of Brian Jordan, Ray Lankford and Ron Gant/Bernard Gilkey of the mid 90s was underrated. They put up 11.6 WAR in ’95 with Gilkey and 13.7 WAR in ’96 with Gant.
I was a huge fan of all of those guys also St25. I didn’t realize their WAR was that high. Remember the “Mark Whitten game”?
I was a huge fan of all of those guys also St25. I didn’t realize their WAR was that high. Remember the “Mark Whitten game”?
I remember seeing the box score in the newspaper the next day, but I didn’t see the game. I thought it was a mistake. Ha
Hamels says he would like to stay in the NL Central whether it is with the Cubs or not….Hmmmmm…
Cole Hamels On Impending Free Agency https://t.co/5du5trpLJz pic.twitter.com/WutEhC0nQm
— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) October 7, 2019
“Honestly, I was fully expecting an offer from them (#STLCards). Just never really came about.” – Dallas Keuchel to @dgoold on the fit that could have been, and could still be?https://t.co/yKfBhtOe1L
— Ben Frederickson (@Ben_Fred) October 7, 2019
Japanese Slugger Yoshitomo Tsutsugo To Be Posted https://t.co/jyvEIMam9a pic.twitter.com/Xj4toI0qqs
— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) October 7, 2019
If Ozuna goes…and we need a bat, and the new posting fees and all make this more manageable IMO…Tsutsugo might be a sneaky signing…he is a left handed bat that hits for good average and has good power
I know we have lots of OFers, but we need production and left handed power would be nice as Carp seems to be in a platoon at best now
Tsutsugo + Keuchel might not make anyone super happy….but it would bring the southpaws for the offense and defense we kind of need…and if Waino doesnt come back..Keuchel would be an interesting veteran for the kids
Any time a new player is posted or comes across and succeeds you realize all the ones that dont work out too…BUT every now and then you get pretty great players and then the GMs who took the chance on them or offered more money are applauded… the Cardinals have missed out aon several good young Cubans because they didnt offer enough… both Gurriels, Robert most recently come to mind.
Robert may become a star, but the Cards would have had to offer well over $50 million and outbid the White Sox to get him. That is a lot of money and risk for a teenager.
Lourdes Gurriel hasn’t done much yet. He is already 26 and had been moved to the outfield at Triple-A because of throwing problems at second. His deal was for $22 million (I don’t know if the Blue Jays had to match that like the Sox did for Robert). With the benefit of partial hindsight already, I am not bothered in the least that the Cards did not get him.
Tsutsugo may be exactly what we need for LF next year. He seems to have some pop in the bat, is LH, and I assume would be cheaper than bringing Ozuna back on a multi year deal. And I really want that comp pick from letting Ozuna walk. The Cards have a pretty good history with those picks although I am not 100% sure Ozuna will turn down the QO. Either way is a win-win for the Cards. They would be glad to have him back on a one year deal.
The Blue Jays have Bo Bichette at SS and Calvin Biggio at 2B. They are weaker in the outfield. Gurriel’s .869 OPS isn’t too shabby for his second year in the league. I wouldn’t call him a total bust at this point. And there is value in having somebody who can play SS, 2B and OF, even if they aren’t the greatest at those positions. As was stated in the Tommy Edman thread, there is value in having utility players when starters go down.
While Gurriel’s contract may be expensive for a utility player, it is not outrageous.
hindsight is all you can do when looking at things like this…it isnt a detriment…at some point every decision made becomes capable of hindsight good or bad… just because looking back at the misses doesnt mean we have to find faults in those players to justify the decisions
i entirely disagree about Lourdes…he has had some setbacks but he has produced already at the MLB level enough to show he has value enough for the price paid, he is still very young and has plenty of skill
Robert is still a big time prospect and overbidding is what you have to do to get guys like that…there is no doubt he has super value and tremendous upside
Gurriel the elder is also a pretty big swing and miss IMO…he is a perfect stabilizing player, capable of quality defense at 3b and 1b, a veteran of the Cuban leagues with a proven record…has pop but also good bat control…we had an opening at 1b or 3b and he would have been nice for the last 3-4 years…
we didnt get Kang either…but his first year was pretty impressive before his legal issues…and now he seems behind …still a miss IMO…and his problems were no guarantees to happen if he had come to STL
there was the other big Korean who MInny signed who had a pretty decent first year only to get injured and flame out so far
Still..even if we only look at Robert and Lourdes…both of those guys would be HUGE chips as prospects or potential building pieces…their prices may have been high but we coudl use those pieces either for on field production potentially or in big trades to other clubs for pieces we need
i think a trade package around Luis Robert this offseason would net a pretty good return alone…not to mention anythign else we added… OR we could use him obviously
Lourdes would be useful in a trade deal too or again be useful internally..
the Reds bet on Chapman…and look what they got…it’s unfortunate the org wasnt able to capitalize on his dominance…but he was still worth the investment…. same goes for Raisel Iglesias… both were very modest deals for what they returned…
Higndsight is what it is…a way to look back and see what happened or didnt… it isnt something to be brushed off
perhaps the Cardinals are better for not going above their last offers…we dont know…what i do know is that at least for the Gurriels and the ORbert that value whether on field or as a prospect would not be a waste….the amount we missed out on those gusy for may never be known but we do know that ANY value for those players was entirely lost because we didnt make the deal…if we missed out on a top 10 prospect for a couple million dollars that doesnt seem like a smart decision to me…if you are interested you sometimes have to go a bit farther than you want
Whether we sign lesser proven or guys or not doesnt mean we shouldnt be taking shots on some of the bigger name guys…and maybe outbid on them….we seem to take the quantity over quality route in the unknowns IMO and I just dont like it for the most part…sure it has produced some good players…but value sometimes is easier to maintain on bigger name guys than the guys no one hears about…whiel Alex Reyes and CMart are great stories…their value only blossomed as they got better and better…. whereas a bigger name like Robert, even with a big contract carries value immediately…and while it could stunt or go down quickly at least it has value from the beginning
while we have also went out and found Oh and Mikolas to much satisfaction…we seem hesitant to invest in the bigger name international prospects…i know we are only recently comign out of our punishment but I hope to see us not sit on the sideline for the Ohtani’s and Roberts
im babbling
it doesnt matter
I am going to look back and consider the moves we made or didnt make and not think that I should not be…
Miley had a solid 2019. He would be ok on a short term deal, kind of like Hamels. I would probably prefer Hamels but either one would be ok. Both are solid innings eaters.
The three players on our roster who will be the most interesting to watch this winter are:
Marcell Ozuna
Carlos Martinez
Kolten WongOzuna will be offered the QO no doubt. Will he accept? If not, will he re-sign here or go elsewhere?
Will CMart be given orders to train as a starter or reliever? Will he be trade bait?
Will Wong be trade bait? He had a great season but we might need the payroll space and a starting spot for Edman.Other interesting names to watch are Wainwright, Wacha, JMart, Bader, O’Neill, and Wieters. I would imagine at least half of that list won’t be back.
It might be a good idea for Ozuna to take the QO. The next Basic Agreement might not have any compensation in it for signing a free agent.
Another one to watch is Carpenter. He’s had some pretty good stats in the past. Would another club take a chance on him?
Gscott, Miley was someone I’d mentioned a couple of months ago, but he had a really bad second half. It will be interesting to see what he signs for since he likely won’t get a QO. There is a certain lefty starter (Matt Boyd) on the Tigers that I’d greatly prefer to have with 3 years of control, but given that a lefty starter could be considered a must by some, he be a nice addition to the rotation in the 4 or 5 hole.
Regarding your players who should have some movement
-Ozuna will either need to sign for something like 3/48 or they will take the pick and run
-Cmart will hopefully be long gone in a trade package with an OF to SD for Yates and Patino
-Wong’s value has never been higher, and with Edman who’s bat would be smartly used as a MI, could actually be moved, although he’s finally blossoming, the falloff to Edman isn’t that big and it would save $10M to spend elsewhere
-Waino will hopefully sign the exact same deal as this year and be the #5
-Wacha gone
-JMart I would guess is 95% gone if they can get much of anything for him, even a couple of low minors lottery tickets
-Bader – With Arozarena and Thomas above average in CF and much better bats, I could see them moving him while he still has value
-O’neill will hopefully be in a Tigers uniform with another couple of prospects for Matt Boyd
-Wieters is going to want more of a chance to start than he gets here, having him and his switch hitting bat back would be a great luxury– I would hope Ozuna would accept the QO and the Cardinals are forced to trade Fowler…Ozuna >>> Fowler
– I don’t see them trading CMart. If he is a closer, he is about right in terms of salary, middle reliever, his salary is not outrageous. I think for trade value, he has to want to start again, which it does not seem he is inclined to do.
– I don’t see them trading Wong. He has finally started turning into the player they thought he could be the last two years. I would prefer dumping $10 million worth of Fowler’s salary.
– Waino – it’s up to him if he signs another incentive-laden deal
– Wacha gone
– JMart – should be gone to free up playing time for O’Neill, Thomas, Arazorena. Doesn’t matter what you get for him, they only spent cash to get him in the first place.
– Bader should stay. Lots of players struggle in their second year and go on to improve over time. How long did it take Wong to become an average bat?
– O’Neill – hopefully they trade Fowler and JMart and keep O’Neill. He needs playing time to prove himself.
– Weiters – 50/50. Really up to him whether he wants to seek more playing time and what he will sign for…As for Wade Miley, he’s a potential if you are only seeking to get an upgrade over Wacha for 1-2 years. I would prefer Keuchel for a left-hander.
If Waino does leave, I’d like to see Ordorizzi + Keuchel (assuming they won’t venture into the Gerritt Cole sweepstakes). Now, if you could get CMart to return to the rotation and just sign Gerritt Cole….
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