August 1, 2019 at 3:54 pm #100471
Inside the Zack Greinke trade: The story of a manic 24 hours, a deal that no one thought would get finished, how the deadline can bring the best — and worst — out in people, and how the Astros and Diamondbacks both shot their shot. The tick-tock at ESPN: https://t.co/pNlhugSukY
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) August 1, 2019August 1, 2019 at 3:55 pm #100472
The #Mets are six outs away from winning their 7th consecutive game and pulling to within 4 games of a wild-card berth. They would terrify any team in October with the rotation of deGrom, Stroman, Syndergaard and Wheeler.
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) August 1, 2019
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) August 1, 2019August 1, 2019 at 6:18 pm #100486ThegreyghostParticipantFree
Not sure where to put this; but there appears to be a real lack of a will to win in the Cardinals front office/organization; it seems like they have just decided to concede the division to the cubs the last 3 or 4 years b/c they have more star players and St. Louis just hopes for the wildcard….I have seen no passion, sense of urgency or just a want to beat the hell out of the cubs from the front office and it seems to trickle down to the players and coaches.
This trade deadline will hopefully cause something to change, b/c I don’t think they anticipated the anger of the fans by there lack of aggression by doing nothing, just don’t see how the current Front Office leaders can recover from this blunder and have any credibility moving forward, especially if this team starts to lose games and there 1 game lead turns into 5 games back.August 1, 2019 at 7:36 pm #100504
Greyghost, some of us have been preaching this the last four years. I keep thinking this passive approach will have to end at some point but apparently home attendance is all that matters.
Despite the attendance I can guarantee you that a lot of the fan base is livid right now.August 1, 2019 at 7:43 pm #100508forsch31Participant
It would have been interesting whether Grienke would have waived his no-trade to come to St. Louis. I don’t understand why the Cardinals are on his no-trade list if he loves it there.August 1, 2019 at 7:56 pm #100516
Players often have a no trade clause to high revenue teams in order to extract extra money in a trade. Extra leverage I suppose.August 2, 2019 at 11:46 am #100643
ICYMI Thu. STL content- @markasaxon After quiet trade deadline, can Michael Wacha redeem Cards? https://t.co/xR4wzqQ3c3 | @Peter_Baugh Six Mizzou FB storylines: https://t.co/s7N1mS8MPd | @miklasz How can Cards make up for their deadline inactivity? https://t.co/2k931lNhHr
— The Athletic (@TheAthleticSTL) August 2, 2019August 2, 2019 at 12:01 pm #100646Nigel TParticipantPaid - Three Months
I value resolve, patience, and the testicular fortitude to walk away from a bad deal when the pressure is there to have. Everyone seems to get that we are at a rare point where our system is top heavy.
This was a unique deadline where we had bats and arms superior to what was being traded.
I for one would have screamed bloody murder if we traded for Tanner Roark. VEB looked foolish for claiming that was a huge miss.
I for one love our depth and our chances.August 2, 2019 at 12:07 pm #100648
From Marx Saxon’s chat in The Athletic:
If the Cards miss the playoffs for the 4th straight year, what happens?
Lots of stuff is going to happen. I will be playing golf, probably quite poorly, on Oct. 1, for example. Many people around these parts will lock in on the St. Louis Blues to see if they can repeat. It will be a nice time to enjoy the fall colors and…. everybody will be waiting to see if ownership, spurred by fan disappointment, goes looking to make personnel changes. Will it be Mo? I personally don’t think so. Will it be Michael Girsch? I don’t have any inside information, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable if I were him. Will it be some coaches? That wouldn’t sit well with Mike Shildt is my guess, so I guess the ultimate answer is, quite honestly, “I don’t know.” It’s really a small circle of people who will make that decision and they’re practically all billionaires who don’t typically speak to reporters like myself very often. I do think if they don’t reach the playoffs they have to consider a new organizational philosophy. If you want to keep up with the top teams now, you can’t just build teams to contend. You have to build teams to dominate. Are they willing to step up the payroll and be one of those teams? If not, stop selling that false narrative to your fans.
August 2, 2019 at 12:16 pm #100651stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
- This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by gscottar.
For once, I agree with Saxon. Payroll doesn’t even have to go that sky high with a couple of shrewd moves and the right signing in FA. Carlos and Wong would certainly fetch at least a couple of useful prospects coming back to restock the farm and be about $20M of salary relief in 2020 as well. Sign or trade for an ace, let Flaherty and Hudson and Mikolas fill the rotation and if you have some luck with a guy like Reyes or O’Neill, you’ve really got a team going.August 2, 2019 at 1:06 pm #100654Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
How not to do free agency…
The Angels spent $34.35 million in free agency on Matt Harvey, Trevor Cahill, Cody Allen, Jonathan Lucroy and Justin Bour.
Cahill: demoted to bullpen
Allen: released (now with Twins)
Bour: demoted to Triple-A
— Fabian Ardaya (@FabianArdaya) August 2, 2019August 2, 2019 at 1:17 pm #100655stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
The Angels’ front office has been a mess for about ten years now. Other than lucking into Mike Trout, they’ve done just about nothing right in that time. It’s a real shame that such a great player will be wasted on middling to poor teams for what looks like nearly his entire career.August 2, 2019 at 2:36 pm #100658
The Angels tried the low hanging fruit approach. Didn’t work.
This winter I expect them to go hard after Gerrit Cole. He grew up literally a few minutes away from the Angels stadium. Of course the Dodgers, Padres, Giants, and Yankees will be throwing big money at him also.August 3, 2019 at 2:02 pm #100757
I can’t say that I totally agree with this take from VEB but it is interesting.August 3, 2019 at 6:20 pm #100772Nigel TParticipantPaid - Three Months
It isn’t a fair take because the last two years there hasn’t been roster space or playing time for low hanging fruit. It is the main reason for the Cecil, Holland, and Gregerson debacles. We are at a point where veteran additions must have incredible value to justify blocking a blessed prospect.August 4, 2019 at 8:59 pm #100929
Do we think the Cardinals target Madison Bumgardner in 2020 and what is the likelihood he wants to sign with us?August 4, 2019 at 9:58 pm #100931mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
Just an opinion, but Bumgarner has not been great lately. I don’t think he would help our pitching much more than Wainwright has this year. I think they’ll make some kind of an offer for Bumgarner, but they won’t overpay for him. What our pitching needs, IMO, is maturity more than anything else.August 4, 2019 at 10:09 pm #100934
Bumgardner is only 30 not 37/38 like Wainwright. I am of the opinion that the Cardinals need an established LH starting pitcher. If not him then some other LH starting pitcher.August 5, 2019 at 12:04 am #100938mspaidParticipantFree
1. Bumgarner, supposedly, and the emphasis is on supposedly, does not want to play for St. Louis.
2. He will likley get a substantial salary for a lengthy contract. Junior is not interested in that. ( Hint: don’t confuse the Goldschmidt deal with a trend for the future.). They’ll fill any rotation opening next year with a minimum wage guy from Memphis. End of anticipation for a big deal for a starter this winter. You’re welcome.August 5, 2019 at 8:56 am #100963
I don’t think any of this is true.August 5, 2019 at 9:08 am #100965
I don’t see the Cardinals in the Bumgarner market this winter. If he doesn’t re-sign with the Giants I would say the favorites would be the Yankees or the Braves. The Braves are close to his hometown.
Actually I don’t see the Cardinals as big spenders on anyone this winter. Maybe a smaller splash here and there. You might not realize it but the Cardinals already have $146M committed in payroll next season and that is only for 11 players. They still have to pay for 15 other roster spots. Their current payroll is around $163M so how much higher will they go next year? Probably not much if history is an indicator. This is why I don’t see Ozuna staying here. That Carp extension is a real killer, not to mention other unproductive salary on the roster. There are numerous names to mention.August 5, 2019 at 9:18 am #100967thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
Strasburg (who i think might opt out as I think he could get more than 25mil per)
i think Arrieta and Kluber may not get their team options picked up either
Cole is the youngest (29) and i think he is tied with Stras for the best, however i think the Stros will probably win it all and Cole will be enamored and extend before he sees FA
but there is plenty of options potentially
-I’d go big on Strasburg, despite his injury issues in his past he is pretty impressive and I’d pay more than 25 per year for him.
-Bumgarner for 5-6 yr deal I think i could handle
-Keuchel for 2
-Wheeler for 3-4 (though i go back and forth on this)
Alex Wood could be an under the radar get to for a lefty, he has some injury woes but if we decide not to go after an ACe, he coudl be a very competent mid rotation type
You have to let Ozuna go to make a big signing of this work i think though, which only makes for more problems in offense production
Rendon is the darling
but Ozuna could get a big payday too his age is not something to downplay
I do wonder about Castellenos’ value, as he is pretty impactful of a run producer and hits for decent average, and while his defense isnt great i think it may be a wash with Ozuna as his arm is undoubtedly better if his range isnt…both are sub 30
I think they already signaled they arent going to re-sign OZuna unless he comes cheap (with their statement of not wanting to move Oneill or Bader)…Carlson seems destined for a starting spot at least late next year
I think they will go big for an Ace, miss out and end up with a 2nd tier option, which they will overpay for to save face (just like Leake and Fowler deals)…they will create an excuse to not re-sign Ozuna which will end up just being that they shouldnt have signed Fowler for what they did, and refused to move other talent)
We could have went to the Jays and gotten Stroman, and Sanchez…and YES given up a lot of good talent (i even think without moving Carlson or Knizner), but i think we would have still ended up in a better position moving forward
Stroman gives us a solid Ace- so we dont have to heavy invest in the offseason
Sanchez is a great buy low option and a lefty
that leaves us money to re-sign Ozuna and move pitching pieces without losing depth
For all the talk still about the rotation…it is still the offense that can’t do anything… Roark and Fiers are not the types who should be causing our batters fitsAugust 5, 2019 at 9:28 am #100969
The rotation for 2020 looks like Mikolas, Flaherty, Hudson, CMart, and ____. There are internal options to battle for that fifth spot like Reyes, Ponce, Gomber, Woodford, or maybe Waino if he returns. I don’t see Wacha coming back. If we go after an external pitcher I don’t see it being a big name due to payroll constraints.
As for the offense I think our IF is set for the foreseeable future. The only question is the OF. I think Ozuna leaves, I would trade JMart, and I would see if someone would take Fowler if we pay at least half of his remaining salary. O’Neill, Bader, Arozarena, Thomas, and Adolis-Garcia could battle for starting spots and I would try to trade for a LH OF like Peralta or Eaton who could fill in for 2020 while Carlson is at Memphis. Carlson should be primed for St. Louis by 2021. We don’t have to rush him.
If were able to move some of Fowler’s salary, some of Carp’s salary, and maybe move CMart we would have payroll room for a bigger splash. Otherwise, I think the roster is mostly set except for some tinkering here and there.
August 5, 2019 at 9:53 am #10097214NyquisTParticipantPaid - Annual
- This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by gscottar.
If you are talking about payroll constraints, the biggest obstacle to overcome is STILL the Fowler contract. $$$ vs. production has been hurting this team since the day of his signing. This will be part of the Mozeliak legacy forever. Add in all the big money failures and that equals the current post-season drought. Thank Mozeliak for us not being able to sign who and what we need now.August 5, 2019 at 10:43 am #100985
After 2019 Fowler will still be owed $33M. Carp will still be owed $39M and possibly more since 2022 has a vesting option clause. Both contracts are albatrosses and are preventing us from getting better players.
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