The Front Office's place in all of this chaos.

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This topic contains 269 replies, has 27 voices, and was last updated by Avatar 14NyquisT 2 days, 2 hours ago.

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  • #94069
    stlcard25
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    You are correct

    This is as far as I read. Glad to know that you are coming around. 😂😂😂

    #94095
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    gscottar
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    Forsch, for $18M they COULD have found a replacement for Carp outside the organization had they not extended him. Why do you keep saying otherwise? I honestly don’t understand your logic.

    Whether it was free agency or a trade it could have happened. There would have been many options but we decided to shut those options off and stay the course.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by Avatar gscottar.
    #94100
    BlackHillsCard
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    Because Carp is handling Major league pitching this season? They still didnt have to extend Carp when they did. He had an option year they could have just exercised after the season if they wanted. Now thats gone. Also gone is any possibility of trading him.

    #94151
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    14NyquisT
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    Reading all the comments here one would get a sense that there is increasing concerns about the general trend the organization is currently taking. The Cardinal team is becoming more and more seen as pretenders and not the contenders that management said the ’19 squad would be.

    Underachievement abounds. There is complaints about players up and down the roster. And now some of these complaints are coming from several of the regs here who firmly believed that the Cards would be in the play-off mix.

    Something has gone awry. Where is the desire seen on the field, where is the emotion and most importantly where is the positive leadership? Why the apathy, why the disappointment and why does this team generally seem so passive about their approach to what has happened to this team that at one point was 20-10.

    Just an observation but things appeared to unravel after the May 2nd game at WAS. We won the first three of a four game set. Our manager decided to rest four starters in one game. The result was a 2-1 loss in the finale. Since then we are 12-22.

    Pecota: Adj playoff probability = 27.9%. Playoff prob. difference in the last 7 days = -18.4%.

    #94155
    bicyclemike
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    The perceived apathy might be a calm, confidence within the club that says “we are better than our record, and will show that before this thing is done so let’s not panic’.

    Whether that is true, only someone around the team would know.

    Realistically, there is nothing this team has shown that gives us hope that they are better than Chicago. The Cubs, at least from the looks of things , have a better front office, field manager, and player personnel than St. Louis.

    We will see how that all looks two months from now. Maybe things will have gotten better by then. But for now, you cannot truthfully say anything different.

    #94238
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    858booyah
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    Realistically, there is nothing this team has shown that gives us hope that they are better than Chicago

    or Milwaukee, Atlanta, Philly or to an extent Colorado. We’ll see how this shakes out 2 months from now has been going on for 3+ years now. If they want to get back in it then they need to make a couple moves. Plain and simply it’s not good enough.

    And I’ve said since the extension. What was the rush on Carpenter? He still had a club option left. It’s almost like they applied tying up younger players philosophy and just forgot how old Carpenter was. lol he can’t even move back to first now and I’ve seen that rag arm the last couple times he’s played 3rd come full circle.

    Oh but don’t worry. We’ll get fed we’ve got reinforcements coming or on the ready down on the farm or on Rehab. Hey Brett Cecil is now throwing from the mound and could be ready to throw gas on the fire by the end of July.

    #94250
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    gscottar
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    #94251
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    gscottar
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    And I’ve said since the extension. What was the rush on Carpenter? He still had a club option left. It’s almost like they applied tying up younger players philosophy and just forgot how old Carpenter was.

    I hear you. My fear is that we are quickly becoming the NL Central version of the San Francisco Giants. Too much of our payroll is tied up in older veterans who lack production and are untradeable. It is a terrible position to be in. Jason Heyward predicted this when he signed with the Cubs.

    #94264
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    thejager
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    looking at the club’s contracts…they arent really tied up with too much…that we don’t want ….but there are 2 big ones that seem mistakes in hindsight…

    Carp and Fowler…gone after 2021…to me that is one year too far off
    Wong after 2020 (yes a low option but he makes a lot for what he provides offensively)
    Cecil after 2020 too

    Tying up Ozuna to 5yrs 100mil seems about right, and that takes him to his age 33 year…a pretty good time to get out on a player

    If we could move Fowler even for a lottery ticket….i wonder if we should just go the Mike Leake route

    Cleveland seems to need OFers, so does SF…neither want to spend money on dead players, but we could eat a healthy amount to make it palatable…

    having 1 hard to take contract is one thing…but two is debilitating IMO

    Carp seems the harder guy to move because of the FOs love of him…Fowler I think is adored too, but he seems to have better appeal on the market at the moment…andwe have better internal options for the OF

    #94269
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    gscottar
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    I hate paying players to play for someone else but that is what happens when you make mistakes. It is also limits what you can pay for players who are actually going to be on your own roster. Like I said the other day, for an organization supposedly ran on analytics they sure like to throw big money at players over 30.

    And I still vote no on an Ozuna extension. We would have our hands completely tied payroll wise until 2021 or 2022.

    #94441
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    14NyquisT
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    This from VEB’s FAN PULSE thingy:

    With just two wins in their last six games, concerns continue to mount among Cardinals fans. In the latest FanPulse survey, Cardinals fans gave a 23% confidence rating in the club. That is the lowest it has been this season and currently the second-lowest in the league.

    Is this on the players or the front office?

    #94566
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    14NyquisT
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    Derrick Goold – PD

    “the Cardinals have traded a sensation and potential All-Star to the Yankees. They’ve moved a 5.0-WAR player to the Tampa Bay Rays, two starters for the Mariners’ rotation, and an ascending center fielder to Cleveland. In exchange, the Cardinals received a handful of players they’ve turned to for help, but most of whom were in the minors as recently as this past week, with the exception of righthanded reliever Giovanny Gallegos.”

    Not being a Monday morning QB you can still look at what we have received in trades and free agency signings and see a trend towards negative results. Not by looking at one acquisition or two but by looking at a series of poor moves. The direction and culture of this team needs to be changed and the sooner the better.

    #94568
    stlcard25
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    Is this on the players or the front office?

    90% players, 10% front office.

    #94995
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    14NyquisT
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    This is from a story from the Redbird Dugout 6/17/19. This are quotes and the full story can be read by clicking on the url at the end of the quotes.

    I believe that the piece is spot on when identifying the true cause of the malaise that has settled in the Cardinal organization. And its not just the STL Cardinals. If you follow the affiliates its almost maddening how poorly our full-season teams are playing… day in day out.

    I feel like I’ve been banging this drum for three or four seasons now, but the Cardinals roster feels cluttered. It feels cluttered because it’s a bunch of misfitting pieces that feel more like the front office is just collecting players than actually trying to build a team.

    They need to pick a direction and stick with it. Are they going to spend and go after it like they claimed they were about 2019 after acquiring Goldschmidt? Apparently not. Are they going to build from within and give their young guys plentiful opportunities? Apparently not that either. The result is a team lost in the middle, just like their front office.

    Find a vision. Make a plan. Pursue the plan. Win or lose, anything is better than being stuck in the middle.

    The problem for the front office is that it’s really easy to sit and look at the what-ifs. Tommy Pham is hovering around a .300/.400/.500 season, which would be his second in three years, something only seven players have done in the last decade. Luke Voit is looking like he’s going to be an All Star starter. Luke Weaver was off to a better start than any Cardinals’ starting pitcher before a UCL injury. And, based on his start to the season, Carson Kellywould be the second best hitter if you plugged him into the current Cardinals lineup.

    You see uncertainty when they commit to Randal Grichuk in center field. And then to Dexter Fowler. And then to Tommy Pham. And then to Harrison Bader. And maybe next to Tyler O’Neill or Lane Thomas and then Dylan Carlson. If they had a vision of what they wanted to be, they’d stick with one of those guys beyond the first sign of trouble.

    http://www.cardsconclave.com/2019/06/17/cardinals-paying-price-lack-longterm-vision/

    #95012
    Brian Walton
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    #95128
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    14NyquisT
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    IMO the Cards should give Ponce a chance to be that starter we are looking for. The outfield needs to be sorted out for maximum production because right now the mediocrity won’t cut it.

    ps…. Shildt has little credibility left. Same story different game.

    #95335
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    14NyquisT
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    IMO, the team needs a true leader. A leader at the plate. A guy that leads by example. Management thought that Goldschmidt was that guy but hasn’t shown much of that sort of leadership. Ozuna had a few weeks of being that guy and DeJong has had some moments but not sustained. Where is that guy that opposing pitchers have fear of? Where is there an All-Star this team? The votes they got in years past have evaporated or expired.

    The FO keeps searching for Mr.Right but lately has missed the boat and paid big bucks for more mediocrity or worse yet. Recently there have been some of our prospects that have shown promise but more of them are playing with other teams.

    #95339
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    14NyquisT, that story you posted a couple of days ago hits the nail on the head. The front office has just been collecting players and not building a team. They have no discernible vision or plan.

    Now they want to be buyers and contend. Great. But to be that, you need to be just a couple of players away. What couple of players are going to push this team over the top? Regardless of the answer to that question, if there even were one, Mo will do his usual and go out and grab us a Gyorko and a Cecil and then declare victory.

    I’m on the edge of my seat.

    #95365
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    mudville
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    To me it looks like MO was building a team. Going into the season every position looked like it was going to be held by a player with star potential…. Molina, Goldschmidt, Wong, DeJong, Carpenter, Ozuna, Bader, Fowler. What’s not to like about that lineup, at least, on paper? Then, there is the much heralded pitching, plus Andrew Miller. I thought this team was going to play the whole year like they did for the first month. And why shouldn’t they?

    #95415
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    14NyquisT
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    Going into the season every position looked like it was going to be held by a player with star potential…. Molina, Goldschmidt, Wong, DeJong, Carpenter, Ozuna, Bader, Fowler.

    That’s some mediocre power there. At least one of them will make the All-Star team. Every team needs at least one representative!

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