The Front Office's place in all of this chaos.

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  • #98066
    Avatar1982 willie
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    well to be honest I don’t believe in boycotting. i started out as a fan in the seventies when they were really bad, went through the late 80s to mid 90s slide. a long term fan is a fan of the whole organization and history. a lot of teams don’t have that history really so i can understand with them, the cardinals no. the fans do a good job of letting the management know when they aren’t satisfied. that’s my feelings, there are gonna be years like this and the past few, but times will change.

    #98070
    Avatargscottar
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    I would never boycott either. I enjoy baseball too much. I haven’t missed many Cardinal games over the last 40 plus years either by radio, TV, internet, or in person and I don’t plan on starting now.

    I generally believe that DeWitt wants to put a winner out on the field. He just has a little longer fuse than most of us plus I really believe the front office has misjudged the caliber of competition we have been up against the last few years.

    #98107
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    DeWitt has been very clear that playing in October is their intent (and not doing so has a negative financial impact).

    You mentioned how well the Cards are drawing this season, so far I don’t see the “negative financial impact”. Or am I missing something?

    DeWitt has been very clear that playing in October is their intent

    He is the owner of the Cardinals and is expected to be optimistic about the condition of the entire operation. One would expect to hear that kind of salesmanship from him. The thing is that there is little that can be seen to justify the statement.

    The status quo direction is not working. The core is aging. There still is not a “face” of the team.
    Organizational windows are closing. Not the type of things you like to hear about a MLB team.

    #98109
    AvatarRememberDiz
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    Living in DFW, I am always concerned about an attitude that I think is that of NFL owner Jerry Jones. When he first bought the Cowboys, he spent a lot of money (before the cap) building a team quickly, getting two #1 quarterbacks in the draft and supplemental draft, trading Herschel Walker for an assortment of high draft choices. The Cowboys won a title fairly quickly. Won three of four.

    But, he also was one of the keys behind the installation of the salary cap. Since that time, he has talked Arlington into building him a billion dollar stadium which, I think, he gets to play in for free. He gets the income from the stadium. Ticket prices soared. Long-time ticketholders were frozen out by the sale of corporate blocks of very expensive tickets. It costs more to park than it does to see the game in most stadia. He gets the revenue. Everything is designed to get Jerry Jones maximum profit. When is the last time you saw the Cowboys in the playoffs? Don’t look for them there in the near future either.

    I just don’t want the front office to become concerned with finances rather than quality of product.

    #98113
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    When is the last time you saw the Cowboys in the playoffs?

    I hate the Cowboys, but the answer is seven months ago. And they have been in two of the last three years.

    #98115
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    Diz it’s interesting you bring up Jones. I don’t follow the business side of the cowboys too closely, but I always heard part of Jones’ problem is ego-related in that he hates sharing the glory with strong head coaches such as Jimmy Johnson. As a result, he later hired “puppets” who he could easily influence and wield over them a great deal of control. By comparison, some say the same about Mo/Dewitt in hiring the two most recent managers who had no MLB experience, knowing they brought little equity into the job and would feel so indebted to march along the company line.

    Also, not to belittle your points, but the cowboys did beat Seattle in the playoffs in 2019 and lost to the eventual NFC champs. As a Packers’ fan, I do follow that. 🙂

    Edit to add: triple, this is the second time in 2 days you’ve posted minutes before me with the same info. I promise I’m not copying you!

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by Euro DandyEuro Dandy.
    #98123
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    Great minds…

    #98124
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    As a Cowboys fan since my youth, Jerry Jones is a terrible owner in that his constant meddling ruined the franchise for the better part of two decades. Things are a bit better lately but he and Dewitt don’t seem much like each other in many ways at all. Or at least I hope BDW doesn’t go that route.

    #98125
    AvatarOnyxgem
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    Diz, using the Cowboys as an example is a bad one since you know they been in playoff 2 out of the last 3 years and are prime to get back there again this year to.

    #98143
    AvatarRememberDiz
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    Being in the playoffs is getting nowhere. There are nationals titles and everything else. Cowboys are grazing in barren pasture.

    #98144
    AvatarOnyxgem
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    Changing what you are talking about now….

    #98147
    AvatarRememberDiz
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    Not really. Cowboys were once beloved. Now, they have lost a lot of the fervor of the fans. I haven’t even looked at the Cowboys game in three or four years. It was so interested in being America’s team that it forgot to be our team. It’s all about profit, and offers no quality. We used to respect even the ownership and management. It’s an alien entity now: having moved from the Cotton Bowl in Dallas, to the venue in Irving which was torn down after the Arlington stadium was built. Probably fewer than 5% of DFW natives have ever been in the new stadium, even for a rock concert. Different feeling now.

    #98154
    AvatarJames Mitan
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    I saw the Cardinals would be willing to trade CMart and or Tyler ONeill…

    What do they have against Tyler ONeill? Power Bat that can run, field… May never hit for a high average but he can hit 250 and get you 30 bombs if you play him everyday…

    #98165
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    I wrote:

    DeWitt has been very clear that playing in October is their intent (and not doing so has a negative financial impact).

    14NyquisT asked:

    You mentioned how well the Cards are drawing this season, so far I don’t see the “negative financial impact”. Or am I missing something?

    Sorry if I was not clear. My simple point is that teams that make the playoffs make more money than if they did not make the playoffs.

    So, reaching the playoffs has a financial incentive built in.

    #98389
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Not getting this kid was a massive failure. But sure, the money got reallocated to other areas.

    #98395
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Robert is a fine prospect. As has been discussed many times, the Cards made a big offer but decided not to try to top the White Sox, which would have cost them $52 to $54 million. That would have been a huge gamble but it may work out for the White Sox. If so, good for their fans. They haven’t even sniffed the playoffs in over a decade.

    OPM = other peoples’ money = the easiest kind to spend

    P.S. St. Louis’ MLB payroll this season is $165 MM. The White Sox are at just $90 MM, seventh to last. And they are again not competitive in an easy division. So, robbing Peter to pay Paul?

    #98396
    Avatargscottar
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    Yep, we ended up with Robert “Lite” in Adolis Garcia. A-G has a lot of talent but has yet been able to harness it.

    #98397
    AvatarHoustonlarry24
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    Here is the legit info on the Cowboys ATT Stadium:

    -City pays $325 mill, while Jerry pays the rest (well-known). Depending on the amount raised, Jerry might have been responsible for another $35 mill (ended up not being necessary).
    -Jerry pays $2m/year to rent the stadium with a lease of 30 years, and the Cowboys are required to play their home games in the stadium over this period.
    -If naming rights are sold, Jerry has to pay 5% of that per year (capped at $500k) to the city
    -At the end of 30 years, there are extensions available up to a total lease of 70 years (with a much lower annual rent)
    -After the lease ends, the Cowboys have the option to purchase the complex from the city for $100m, and they get credit for paid rent and operating costs (!) — if “credit” means “full credit” I think this means they would probably only have to fork over around $20-30m for the whole complex after 30 years…
    -Jerry pays for all operating costs and receives all revenue. I assume this covers all events in the stadium, not just Boys game, but not sure
    -Jerry has to pay $500k/year for 33 years for youth sports charity
    City of Arlington already paid all costs off as the stadium has been a cash cow to all.

    #98399
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    In the new world of hard caps, Robert would have cost 10 years of today’s international bonus money. I haven’t tried to estimate this, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cards haven’t spent more than $50 million over the last 10 years internationally in total.

    #98400
    Avatargscottar
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    Speaking of international money I know there is talk of establishing an international draft. If so, do we know what the spending parameters would be?

    I read that one proposal out there would have the international drafting order being determined by the division you were in instead of by w-l record. I guess each division would take turns at the top picks. That seems absurd to me.

    #98401
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I thought Robert was also pretty swayed by all the young prospects the Sox had tanked for/ acquired compared to the Cards.

    #98402
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    That seems absurd to me.

    Why’s that? You’d rather see more tanking rewarded and the same few small market teams get the best players every year just like the US draft?

    I like the idea of every team getting a fair shot at elite talent once in a while.

    #98403
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Well, story lines can get crafted to explain decisions, so we don’t know for sure how and why Robert made his call. Relationships are also very important in some international signings.

    Whatever it is, it is old news at this point. The second-guessing over things that are out of anyone’s control never get old for some, though. 😉

    #98404
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    Here is the legit info on the Cowboys ATT Stadium:

    -City pays $325 mill, while Jerry pays the rest (well-known). Depending on the amount raised, Jerry might have been responsible for another $35 mill (ended up not being necessary).
    -Jerry pays $2m/year to rent the stadium with a lease of 30 years, and the Cowboys are required to play their home games in the stadium over this period.
    -If naming rights are sold, Jerry has to pay 5% of that per year (capped at $500k) to the city
    -At the end of 30 years, there are extensions available up to a total lease of 70 years (with a much lower annual rent)
    -After the lease ends, the Cowboys have the option to purchase the complex from the city for $100m, and they get credit for paid rent and operating costs (!) — if “credit” means “full credit” I think this means they would probably only have to fork over around $20-30m for the whole complex after 30 years…
    -Jerry pays for all operating costs and receives all revenue. I assume this covers all events in the stadium, not just Boys game, but not sure
    -Jerry has to pay $500k/year for 33 years for youth sports charity
    City of Arlington already paid all costs off as the stadium has been a cash cow to all.

    The genius of that deal is that it looks like Jerry, out of the kindness of his heart, spent more on the stadium than the city while letting the city still own it. In reality, that is just ownership on paper to avoid paying the property taxes on that place, which would be a significant sum of money – far more than the $2 million in rent plus the half million in naming rights fees.

    #98405
    Avatargscottar
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    Why’s that? You’d rather see more tanking rewarded and the same few small market teams get the best players every year just like the US draft?

    I like the idea of every team getting a fair shot at elite talent once in a while.

    I get that but there is also the distinct possibility that the international talent level isn’t the same each year thus the real elite talent may not even be available when it is your turn to pick first. Could be just random luck.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Avatargscottar.
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