The Front Office's place in all of this chaos.

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This topic contains 423 replies, has 35 voices, and was last updated by Avatar 858booyah 1 month ago.

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  • #98407
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    gscottar
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    And the Sox were/still are in the middle of a rebuild. I wouldn’t expect their payroll to be equal to the Cardinals. The Sox are about two years away from being a force with Robert, Moncada, Jimenez, Giolito, Kopech, Cease, and Madrigal.

    Also not sure the AL Central is that bad this year. Yes, the Tigers and Royals are awful but I think the Twins and Indians would win the NL Central. The NL Central is just more balanced from top to bottom.

    #98408
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    P.S. St. Louis’ MLB payroll this season is $165 MM. The White Sox are at just $90 MM, seventh to last. And they are again not competitive in an easy division. So, robbing Peter to pay Paul?

    I would have robbed Dexter to pay Luis. Well, I would have not signed Dexter at all. No idea if I would have paid Luis. I wish we could have diverted some of that sweet, sweet, OPM (which I agree is the best money to spend!).

    #98409
    BlackHillsCard
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    The second-guessing over things that are out of anyone’s control never get old for some, though. 😉

    Yes, missing out on a generational talent like Robert is hilarious.

    #98410
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    The Sox are about two years away from being a force with Robert, Moncada, Jimenez, Giolito, Kopech, Cease, and Madrigal.

    I remember all the consecutive years where the Cardinals were going to be a force with XXX, XXX, XXX, and XXX. All those can’t miss guys that either aren’t doing anything for the Cardinals or aren’t doing much for them. Many a future dynasty has fallen short. For all the ballyhoo about how under-rated our pipeline has been for the last decade, we sure didn’t end up with all that much.

    #98412
    Brian Walton
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    “Generational talent”? Now THAT is hilarious. The young man is ranked no. 15 overall (per BA’s brand new rankings released today) and has yet to play an MLB game. Baseball history is littered with great prospects who couldn’t make the final step for whatever reason. (The Cards recently had a no. 1 overall who may be in that category.) Cooperstown needn’t roll out the red carpet just yet.

    P.S. I am learning that “generational talent” is the term used to overhype whoever the Cards do not sign. 😉

    #98414
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    gscottar
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    I don’t think we ever had as many highly rated players that they have. Even if only half of them make it big the Sox are going to be very good.

    By 2022 the Sox could be the toast of Chicago while Theo is trying to rebuild some other team and Maddon is managing the Montreal Rays.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Avatar gscottar.
    #98429
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    I’ll be sure to screenshot your comment, Brian, for future “I told you so” when Robert starts getting MVP votes. Robert is another player that the Cards whiffed on but lets just laugh because having a mediocre farm system and being barely .500 is just dandy.

    #98431
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    On another note, why is the FO and coaching so slow on making changes to the lineup and roster. Harrison Bader doesn’t deserve to be on a MLB roster at the moment.

    #98432
    Brian Walton
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    You can screenshot whatever you want, but you will have to save it for a decade or more to be proven right. The odds are stacked against you. (P.S. Getting MVP votes does not define a “generational talent”.)

    In the meantime, it is just puffery because you don’t like the front office. We get that.

    For the record, Mike Trout is a generational talent. So was Albert Pujols. This list is very short. They earned it for consistent excellence over many years.

    P.S. The AL Central is MLB’s only division with three teams at least 10 games under .500. I will stand on my assessment of it being a very weak division.

    #98433
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    I’ll be sure to screenshot your comment, Brian, for future “I told you so” when Robert starts getting MVP votes.

    Getting MVP votes makes you a generational talent? Hell, we have two generational talents on the IL right now.

    #98435
    Brian Walton
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    Sorry to correct you, atripleshy. The Cards actually have THREE generational talents on the IL – Molina, Carpenter and Ozuna!

    #98436
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    Ha, how could I forget about the one that was closest to actually being a generational talent?

    #98439
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    And it won’t take a decade to determine the Cardinals FO screwed the pooch in not signing Luis Robert, it’ll take less than 5 years. Mark it down on the calendar; put it on a post-it note; put it into your smart phones.

    You know what’s truly hilarious, though, our depleted and mediocre farm system. Even funnier is a .204/.315/.359 starting center fielder who ranks 246th out of 252 players in wRC+ since May 5. And the cherry on top of all of hilariousness is that in the same frame Paul DeJong is 245th, Wong 222nd, and Carp 211th.

    #98442
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    I always thought those international free agents had free will. And, you can probably call it now, since the White Sox could get a ton in value for Robert in a trade right now. So that’s one smart team, and 29 idiot teams.

    #98445
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    Players usually sign with the team that offers the most money, so there’s your free will. And half the league couldn’t sign him in 2016 because they were under penalty for going over the spending limit in the previous years. The Cardinals also knew they were going to be facing penalties from the hacking scandal and still chose not to push. Just hilarious.

    #98548
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    SoonerinNC
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    I compiled a data base of all of the Cardinal’s transactions since Mo was named General Manager in October of 2007. It includes all transactions except for amateur free agents. It is complete up to the all-star break. I am in the process of analyzing the data. I will post the information within the next week. Not sure whether to put it on this thread or create a new one.

    #98551
    Brian Walton
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    That should be interesting, Sooner. Are you including WAR values or some other way to distinguish player value? Since this is trade specific, it would seem to justify its own thread, but you can place it as you choose as far as I am concerned.

    #98552
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    SoonerinNC
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    Yes I included WAR as included in the Baseball Reference. I will include things such as best deals which at this time looks like Holliday in terms of WAR received vs given up.

    #98555
    Brian Walton
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    You can decide if you want to look at this (again?) or not, but in December, I did an fWAR-based analysis of Mo’s trades. My focus was on the deals in which prospects departed.

    Trading Prospects Has Not Hurt the St. Louis Cardinals

    #98661
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    14NyquisT
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    .

    #98691
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    gscottar
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    #98700
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    As usual, the general public catches up with our discussion from several days ago!

    #98703
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    gscottar
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    I have noticed that too Brian, especially when it comes to players in the minors. This board is usually a few weeks if not months ahead of the P-D.

    #98708
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    858booyah
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    You know what is chaos for a couple people on this board. We now have 14 pitchers and 11 position players. lol

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