So what are we going to do?

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  • #175699
    PadsFS
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    I’ve warmed to the idea of getting Mark Canha for the DH/4th outfielder slot. Canha has a 126 total wRC+ over the last 4 years, and a 120 career wRC+ against RHP. He could likely be had on a 1-year deal as well. I like Pederson as well, but would prefer someone with a little better hitting.

    #175700
    PadsFS
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    If we go out and get a guy like Canha or Pederson, I think it makes Nootbaar pretty expendable.

    Given what DeJong is worth, I think a trade with Detroit would be an optimal landing place for him. The Tigers are looking to compete again, but probably don’t need an expensive/elite closer, as it’s more of a dipping your toes in the water kind of competing. They also don’t have a shortstop at all (Goodrum).

    DeJong for Michael Fulmer would be a good deal for both teams. Then we can send them Nootbarr while they throw in a MiLB starter type like Joey Wentz since Fulmer only has a year of service left at a near-market value rate. Nootbaar gives them some OF depth for Victor Reyes & Akil Baddoo and Wentz restocks our SP pipeline for 2023.

    #175701
    cardsfan64
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    I feel like the FO is willing to use internal options if we have the DH next year. Several AAA players fit that slot including Yepez, Gorman, or even Baker. Don’t see them spending for anyone not on the 40 man or needs to be put there to protect them.

    #175702
    PadsFS
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    A final trade idea that fits would be a deal with Oakland for Montas. Montas gives us a solid #2 type starter with 2 years of control for Gorman. If you believe in Edman (or Donovan perhaps), Gorman is rather expendable as well. He doesn’t need to waste away playing DH either. Another SP trade candidate for Gorman could be German Marquez of the Rockies. Both teams would be looking to trade imo.

    We can let Jordan Walker close the gap on the future infield needs. I think the Cards could also go get an additional infielder like Adam Frazier or Jurickson Profar to balance the risk of a starting MI of Sosa/Edman with DeJong and Gorman traded away.

    #175703
    PadsFS
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    cardsfan64

    I feel like the FO is willing to use internal options if we have the DH next year. Several AAA players fit that slot including Yepez, Gorman, or even Baker. Don’t see them spending for anyone not on the 40 man or needs to be put there to protect them.

    That’s a solid recipe for landing in the wild card game again imo.

    Yepez seems like a good bat, in fact, I bet he produces much like the player he was traded for in Matt Adams. But which Adams are you getting with him? The .284/.288 BA with 15-17 HRs a year like he put up in 2013-14? Or the 2015-2016 version with .240 BA and 5-16 HRs.

    Plus Adams came up with Craig already in hand, then after falling off, they picked up Brandon Moss so I could see the Cards adding a vet like Canha to fit in with a young slugger like Yepez for a year.

    #175707
    Ratsbuddy
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    I am not sure why so many are so high on Yepez. His career batting average in the minors is only .274. That doesnt translate into much at the big league level.

    #175721
    Cards667
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    I like Yepez before this year in the little I watched. I like to find some video and get an idea of some of these guys. I think Yepez as a “26th man” is perfect. Sosa-IF, Yepez-1B/3B/LF/RF, Nootbaar-OF, Knizner-C is a really solid bench with Yepez getting some time at then expected DH vs LHP or letting Goldschmidt get some time at DH while he plays 1B. OF is great defensively and developing offensive. I like Bader. Carlson obviously has a lot of talent. O’Neill had a really good year. If he cuts the K% down I think he can recreate that run production. Obviously corner IF are locked in. I really like Edman and if he can improve the BB% and OBP he’s only going to be better. SS to me is the only question mark on what they do. Is it Sosa, DeJong, who? I still would like a LH bat between Goldschmidt and Arenado, just thinking back to Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen.

    #175725
    stlcard25
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    A final trade idea that fits would be a deal with Oakland for Montas. Montas gives us a solid #2 type starter with 2 years of control for Gorman. If you believe in Edman (or Donovan perhaps), Gorman is rather expendable as well. He doesn’t need to waste away playing DH either. Another SP trade candidate for Gorman could be German Marquez of the Rockies. Both teams would be looking to trade imo.

    I’d be hesitant to trade 6 years of Gorman for 2 years of a non-elite starter. I also don’t see him as an expendable player, with some weakness in the middle infield pretty apparent (Dejong looks done here in St Louis, Sosa has only a half year in, Edman is good but not great, Donovan is an unknown).

    I like the idea of adding a guy who can hit righties better, although I suspect the Cards would not sign another right handed hitter even if his splits are better. Someone like Kole Calhoun also fits the bill and probably will be cheap.

    #175728
    PadsFS
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    stlcard25

    I’d be hesitant to trade 6 years of Gorman for 2 years of a non-elite starter.

    That’s always the issue though. If you trade him for a guy with more control, you’re getting a much less effective starter. A guy like Triston McKenzie is about as good as you get if you go for more years (or someone like Liberatore). Probably best to keep him, but several folks on here are going all in on Edman and Sosa, which leaves Gorman out in the cold.

    #175729
    bccran
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    667 –

    The left handed bat between Goldschmidt and Arenado will be Gorman at some point in 2022.

    #175731
    Brian Walton
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    Pads said:

    “…but several folks on here are going all in on Edman and Sosa, which leaves Gorman out in the cold…”

    It is expected that fans will have favorites, but they aren’t making the decisions. When Gorman shows he is ready, he will play. I have no doubt whatsoever about that.

    #175732
    Brian Walton
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    rats said:

    I am not sure why so many are so high on Yepez. His career batting average in the minors is only .274. That doesnt translate into much at the big league level.

    In your view, can a prospect ever improve or are they the same at 18 years old as they are at 23 or will be at 28? These cursory analyses based on career BA are inherently flawed. There is a lot to be learned if one would just be open to it.

    #175734
    stlcard25
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    It is expected that fans will have favorites, but they aren’t making the decisions. When Gorman shows he is ready, he will play. I have no doubt whatsoever about that.

    Yep, that is super clear. He’s playing 2B now, which means Edman will be on the move when he’s ready to take over. While the team could get value with Tommy as the utility IF, they could also get value by trading him. That’ll be Mo’s choice in the next year or so.

    #175735
    SoonerinNC
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    One of the litmus tests for me is how much do they improve when moving to a higher level. Both Edman and Carlson had better numbers at AAA than at lower levels. It is a sign that they are making good adjustments and ditching bad habits.

    A guy to watch is Luken Baker. He was destroying AA pitching before he hit the IL. A guy who alway had the power but was unable to translate it to live action. He may have found the formula and if so would be a great DH and backup to Goldy. May have been just a one time hot streak but seemed more to me.

    #175741
    gscottar
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    Gorman will get plenty of AB’s when he is ready. 2B, DH, and occasionally at 3B when Arenado has the day off. Edman could get a lot of playing time at SS.

    #175742
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Sooner said:

    A guy to watch is Luken Baker. He was destroying AA pitching before he hit the IL. A guy who alway had the power but was unable to translate it to live action. He may have found the formula and if so would be a great DH and backup to Goldy. May have been just a one time hot streak but seemed more to me.

    Baker is probably a year away from consideration. He is queued up behind Yepez and should get his 2022 shot at Memphis. Maybe the AFL next fall, too. His downside is being 1B only, but as we saw with Nogowski, there is still a way forward. As noted, the DH will help him more.

    #175750
    ZTR
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    The more I read this thread the more bought in I get to the 2022 Cardinals.

    They have quite a few viable internal minor league field pieces that it appears will be ready at some point in 2022.

    My main concern continues to be the starting pitching.

    There are some good options in house but many of these assets are either really aging or coming back from injury – so you almost have to think some of them will fall victim to regression and/or injury.

    It just feels like the Cards need to add a couple of starters….

    #175768
    PadsFS
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    Brian Walton

    “…but several folks on here are going all in on Edman and Sosa, which leaves Gorman out in the cold…”

    It is expected that fans will have favorites, but they aren’t making the decisions. When Gorman shows he is ready, he will play. I have no doubt whatsoever about that.

    I’m all for Gorman personally. I like the depth we have. But is it worth it going from an Edman/Sosa/DeJong MI to a combo including Gorman there, with his learning curve….VERSUS…having a guy like German Marquez or Frankie Montas in the rotation? This would indicate more of a going all-on on the next couple seasons.

    Either way, imo, the Gorman trade would only be an option if they decide to spend the FA capital on someone like Marcus Siemen. Then we would still be in need of the SP.

    #175769
    bccran
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    Gorman – 2B
    Edman – SS

    Simple.

    #175770
    stlcard25
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    Is Edman really that much of an upgrade at SS over Dejong? Seems like they are both slightly below average hitters and I’d trust Dejong’s defense more at this point.

    I’d also guess that Edman would fetch a better player in a trade than Dejong. Not quite as good as Gorman, but he’s a known commodity as a starting caliber 2B/utility guy. Maybe he and a prospect could get us Montas??

    #175778
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I would be stunned if Gorman is traded. Stunned.

    #175784
    gscottar
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    I don’t think Gorman will be traded either. I think he will be the starting 2B by June 1. Edman will become either the starting SS or a utility guy. As for trading DeJong or Edman, Edman probably has more value but if the Cards are in penny pinching mode they know that Edman is quite a bit cheaper over the next two years so they might like to dump DeJong’s salary.

    #175789
    bccran
    Participant

    Edman and DeJong are slightly below average hitters? Have you checked the 2021 stats, 25?

    DeJong batted .197 with an OBP of .284.

    #175795
    stlcard25
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    Dejong was an 86 OPS+ hitter last year, 87 in 2020 and career 101 OPS+. Edman was a 93 OPS+ hitter last year, 90 in 2020 and career 101 OPS+. Not a lot of difference.

    #175798
    bccran
    Participant

    Look at all of 2021, 25. That’s what counts. DeJong was simply awful.

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