So what are we going to do?

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  • #175800
    stlcard25
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    Yeah, Dejong was lost by the end of the year. Despite that, his line wasn’t all that much worse than Edman’s and it took a late season hot streak for Tommy to get there. Dejong also ran a .216 batting average on balls in play, which is pretty unsustainably low. Steamer (the Fangraphs projection system) has Dejong at a 101 wRC+ for next year and Edman at 98. Both are probably a little high for my expectations, which again are “slightly below average,” around 90-95. Neither will cripple your offense with the bat, but neither should be offensive staples either.

    #175803
    bccran
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    DeJong by month in 2021 –

    Apr – .165/.276/.341/.617
    May – .205/.279/.436/.715
    Jun – .148/.258/.315/.573
    Jul – .282/.346/.479/.825
    Aug – .196/.292/.375/.667
    Sep – .176/.242/.412/.644

    And you call that slightly below average, 25? It’s actually rock bottom pathetic IMO.

    #175804
    ZTR
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    The Edman / DeJong comparison feeds into the fact that the Cardinals really need an offensive upgrade in the middle infield that hopefully pairs with the leadoff spot.

    There seem to be multiple options to accomplish the mission so hopefully they pick a lane and make a move.

    #175805
    bccran
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    They won 17 straight games with Sosa and Edman in the middle IF. Gorman is knocking at the door. Mo probably won’t make a move at SS.

    #175806
    stlcard25
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    Bc, I still don’t get the point you’re trying to make. If average is 100 and Dejong is an 86, then what does that make Edman as a 93?

    I believe they are similar offensive players. Dejong has better power and lower hitting ability, Edman has a better hit tool with marginal power. Dejong is a known plus defender at SS, Edman is known to be plus at 2B but is an unknown at SS. Overall, they look to have similar value going forward. You seem to object. That’s ok, we tend to disagree on players. We’ll see what 2022 brings as both will probably be back.

    #175808
    ZTR
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    This is a ‘who is the tallest midget’ discussion.

    Both players are below the major league average so an upgrade is in order.

    #175809
    bicyclemike
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    Would love to see Gorman play good enough defense at second and hit consistently enough to take the job. That would free up Tommy for late defense, possibly some shortstop play, and utility. But this will be a transition year so we will see.

    #175823
    Wooster
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    I’m with you on this one bccran. Edman the same as DeJong. Sorry but I can’t go on “what used to be”. DeJong was of not much help in 2020. His ability to hit a ball went along with Carps. Sorry but if we really want a complete team we need to upgrade at SS. We are not good enough to depend on pitching only. Edman did come on strong at the end of the season and I’m all for it. Who do you thinks gonna come through in the clutch- Edman or DeJong?

    #175825
    stlcard25
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    I saw elsewhere that the As may be a decent trade partner for Dejong. They have quite a few arbitration guys who are getting more expensive. The aforementioned Frankie Montas has two years of control, so he may be pricier. But lefty Sean Manaea and righty Chris Bassett each have one year left and will probably get raises from their ~$6M and $5M deals this year. I like the idea of having a lefty in the rotation and see how he fits with Waino retiring most likely next year.

    #175826
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    “Would love to see Gorman play good enough defense at second and hit consistently enough to take the job. That would free up Tommy for late defense, possibly some shortstop play, and utility. But this will be a transition year so we will see”.
    I do not want Groman to ever play 2B…Edman should start every game there. Tommy makes the Cardinals go.

    #175827
    Ratsbuddy
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    I am not sure why seemingly so many people on this Forum are down on Edman. He hit .262 last year and stole 30 bases. His career batting average is .272. He seemed to be a very fine defensive 2ndbaseman.

    I guess what it boils down to is that his fWDR and his BAFIG and his rUXT and his DYvK are not quite as good as what some had hoped for.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #175829
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    Again, Edman makes the Cardinals go. Leave him alone and concentrate on real issues.

    #175830
    gscottar
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    Edman will play a lot but it might not always be at 2B.

    #175831
    gscottar
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    It looks like Girsch is staying. No one wants that Mets job.

    #175833
    forsch31
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    Rat, I have not heard anyone “down” on Edman. I have heard a lot of points why he could be a candidate to be replaced or moved out of the leadoff spot.

    Many posters think the offense needs upgraded. Where is that upgrade coming? The only regulars whose batting average was less than Edman’s are DeJong, Molina and Arenado. Arenado hit 34 home runs and drove in over 100 runs. It was a down year for him. Sosa hit better than Edman and took over the SS position from DeJong. That only leaves Molina and Edman. Who do you want to replace?

    #175834
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    Edman should not be replaced…he is very, very valuable. It is total nonsense to even mention him in that regard. Something is wrong with anyone who thinks that way.

    #175835
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    “Edman will play a lot but it might not always be at 2B”. He should start every game at 2B.

    #175836
    gscottar
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    He should start every game at 2B.

    There are several questions to think about.

    Will DeJong be on the team in 2022?
    Will Sosa’s production regress?
    Where will Gorman play?

    I think Edman could see time at SS.

    #175838
    stlcard25
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    I could see the argument that Edman would be a better option at 2B for 2022 than Gorman. It’s my belief that Gorman will be solid enough with the glove and provide the LH power we need at 2B to make Edman a platoon player at best by 2023. There’s really no merit to the idea that Gorman will be relegated to DH unless his glove is much worse than reported so far. Further, there’s no promise that Edman won’t follow Dejong’s career path and get worse with the bat, not better.

    So the question is…when is the tipping point where you decide the value for Edman in a trade outweighs his value on the Cards?

    I will also say that I could see him being the CFer when Bader will have to be paid. I think he would be a decent defender there and provides versatility as a switch hitter.

    There’s a lot to consider with Tommy, no matter how much some posters want to pretend he’s a cornerstone player.

    #175839
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    Edman should never be a platoon player. That is crazy. Gorman needs to DH.

    #175840
    forsch31
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    GameCard, glad to know what you think of me.

    #175841
    stlcard25
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    Edman should never be a platoon player. That is crazy. Gorman needs to DH.

    Please explain why he needs to DH? He’s likely an above average defender at 3B which should make him average at 2B, with his bat being better than Edman’s. He’s a top 20-30 prospect in all of baseball who hit as well at 21 in Memphis as Edman did at 24. I’d bet you that Mo and company will make room for Gorman when he’s ready and Edman will be the one moving positions. 😉

    #175844
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    He isn’t in the same league as Tommy Edman. Our Management is stupid if they move Edman and replace him with Gorman. Gorman needs to DH period.

    #175845
    blingboy
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    Goeman should get the chance to show if he can play 2B and do better than .300 OBP. Yepez and/or an acquisition will probably DH. Edman would be a good UT/PH bench guy. Could play any of 7 positions in a pinch and some speed on the bases.

    #175847
    bccran
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    Those who have done their homework appreciate Edman’s skill at SS. He was the defensive SS of the year in the baseball rich PAC 12, when he was at Stanford. He played 234 games at SS coming through the system, more than any other position.
    And yet people question his prowess at that position. Why?

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