October 18, 2021 at 12:33 pm #175254
No, 25, they care about winning. Because that leads to more cash. But they want to do it internally. Long term contracts with free agents haven’t worked.October 18, 2021 at 1:39 pm #175263
No, 25, they care about winning. Because that leads to more cash. But they want to do it internally. Long term contracts with free agents haven’t worked.
That’s because they are flaming idiots when it comes to the kind of players they pursue. The Dexter Fowlers and Mike Leakes are the worst kind of free agents to pursue, where they are being paid over value to produce average results. Then they fail because there’s literally no upside to a player like that and they naturally decline to below replacement level.
There are high $$, long term guys on the market every year (including this one) whose deals will pan out better than either of those deals ever had any chance to. Why? Because those players are paid like 4-5 WAR players and they have 5+ WAR upside. If they “fail,” they are 2-3 WAR, average players whereas those other guys “fail,” they become valueless replacement players.October 18, 2021 at 2:36 pm #175268
I think the current trend is to try to find 3 WAR players but only pay them as a 1 WAR player. Only the smartest front offices can pull this off though. I am talking about players like Adam Duvall. He puts up a .772 OPS, 38HR, 113 RBI, 3.1 WAR, and was paid $2M.October 18, 2021 at 4:36 pm #175280
That was why I was on Robbie Ray the last few years. He was paid little and probably will win the AL Cy Young. Do you trust the Cards FO to make the right call on any of those low hanging fruit types? I don’t.October 18, 2021 at 4:43 pm #175281
Do you trust the Cards FO to make the right call on any of those low hanging fruit types? I don’t.
Probably not although they did well with Garcia, McFarland, LeBlanc, Happ, and Lester. They just waited a bit too long.
They may not be able to pull it off like the Giants, Rays, and others but I get the sense that is what they want to try to do.October 18, 2021 at 6:31 pm #175288
Good post, gscottar. They are indeed good at finding good players for reasonable dollars that contribute to the winning tradition.October 19, 2021 at 6:38 am #175296Pork TwainParticipantPaid - Annual
I know I am in the minority on here but I have always been fine with them not going big on the free agent market. Too many of those guys have not worked out over the years for the teams that got them and I hate seeing so much money tied up on players that do not live up to their potential. I have had to see enough wasted salary space with Fowler, Carp and Carlos. I am happy we are not paying Albert, Heyward or Stanton salaries.October 19, 2021 at 7:43 am #175302Pork TwainParticipantPaid - Annual
For whatever crazy reason, it seems like the Cards have done much better through the trade market. I don’t get it.October 19, 2021 at 8:11 am #175305
The Cardinals haven’t done enough due diligence before signing a free agent. Leake had his own agenda. Dexter was an attitude issue. Miller was on a downslope. Etc., Etc., Etc.October 19, 2021 at 9:28 am #175312PadsFSParticipantFree
That was why I was on Robbie Ray the last few years. He was paid little and probably will win the AL Cy Young. Do you trust the Cards FO to make the right call on any of those low hanging fruit types? I don’t.
Signing low-hanging fruit or diamonds in the rough are the Cardinals’ front office best attribute.
Starting with Lohse and Ludwick in 08, Piniero in 09. The series of closers like Mujica in 12, Neshek in 14, Oh in 16, and Norris in 18. Both Mikolas in 18 and Kim in 20 were excellent pickups and there is more depending on the level of ‘low-hanging fruit’ that you decide, like getting Freese for Edmonds, or Lackey for Craig, Gyorko for Jay, or Gallegos for Adams in the trade department.
The thing they have been poor at are giving out extensions, which is hard to fault after Molina, Wainwright, Garcia, Carpenter, and Wong — morphing into the 2nd extension for some of these in addition to extensions for Craig, Piscotty, Martinez, Dejong, and Mikolas.
Also the non-diamond-in-the-rough FA signings haven’t worked out ~ Fowler, Cecil, Miller, Holland, and Leake.
To me, there’s a happy middle – finding some value in the free agency market at the high-end or the low-end, but staying out of the middle (although here I am championing for Jon Gray and Kyle Schwarber haha)October 19, 2021 at 9:37 am #175313cardsfan64ParticipantFree
Actually got Yepez in the Adams trade. Gallegos came from the Yankees in the Luke Voit trade. But I agree for the most part. Trades seem to have worked out a bit better for the Cards, with an exception of the Ozuna trade. Gave up way too much young talent for an injured player because we were desperate for a big bat.October 20, 2021 at 9:16 am #175361October 20, 2021 at 11:21 am #175365
I don’t think $22M gets us Stroman, a reliever and a LH bat. If it did I’d be happy about it, though.October 20, 2021 at 2:54 pm #175367
Starters – Jack, Dakota, Miles, Waino, and either Woody, Reyes, Libby, Kim, Happ, or Lester.
LH bat – Gorman, Donovan, Burleson.
Bullpen – Gallegos, Hicks, Garcia, Helsley, Woody if not starting, Reyes if not starting, Whitley, Fernandez, Cabrera(L), McFarland(L), Thomas(L).October 21, 2021 at 11:26 am #17540314NyquisTParticipant
Flaherty-Wainwright-Hudson-Mikolas-Happ/Woodford. If its not Woodford… he stays stretched out at Memphis.
But let’s see how ST shakes out. Only four months away.October 21, 2021 at 5:03 pm #175419
I’m not sure if Mo is going to move the needle much this off season. Maybe an experienced utility OFer and a bullpen piece or two.October 21, 2021 at 5:09 pm #175420RatsbuddyParticipantFree
I’ll say it again. The only position where there is no guaranteed spot is at SS. Look at the following, they are all locks:
The only position that is NOT locked down is SS. That’s the only spot where we could see some kind of upgrade. If we make one or two marginal transactions to help the bench, bullpen, etc, we aren’t going to see much improvement unless the eight regulars improve upon last year’s numbers.
r/Esteemed RatOctober 22, 2021 at 8:49 am #175441
We could also make an upgrade with the DH position.October 22, 2021 at 11:17 am #175452Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
So folks are assuming Edman cannot be an MLB starting SS so they could not add a second baseman?October 22, 2021 at 11:38 am #175453858booyahParticipantFree
Viva El is closer than what people want to admit.October 22, 2021 at 2:57 pm #175462October 22, 2021 at 2:58 pm #175463
So folks are assuming Edman cannot be an MLB starting SS so they could not add a second baseman?
I definitely think Edman could be an everyday SS.October 22, 2021 at 3:46 pm #175464
Edman was an excellent SS at Stanford. He played SS for the Cardinals all the way up through AA ball. At AAA, he played some SS, but was moved over to 2B to increase his versatility, because DeJong was firmly planted at SS. Anyone who doesn’t think Edman can be a good SS hasn’t followed his career in depth.October 22, 2021 at 4:13 pm #175466Euro DandyParticipantFree
It seems like a lot of people quickly typecast Edman as super utility guy. He’s done well at SS even at the MLB level when called upon. I wouldn’t assume that his breadth of positional skills means he lacks the depth to play everyday at any one position in the infield. He hasn’t looked as comfortable to me in the outfield.October 22, 2021 at 4:42 pm #175469Cardinal in FranceParticipantFree
It would seem making Edman our every day shortstop would solve several problems, so let’s just do it.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.