So what are we going to do?

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Viewing 25 posts - 151 through 175 (of 501 total)
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  • #175254
    bccran
    Participant

    No, 25, they care about winning. Because that leads to more cash. But they want to do it internally. Long term contracts with free agents haven’t worked.

    #175263
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    No, 25, they care about winning. Because that leads to more cash. But they want to do it internally. Long term contracts with free agents haven’t worked.

    That’s because they are flaming idiots when it comes to the kind of players they pursue. The Dexter Fowlers and Mike Leakes are the worst kind of free agents to pursue, where they are being paid over value to produce average results. Then they fail because there’s literally no upside to a player like that and they naturally decline to below replacement level.

    There are high $$, long term guys on the market every year (including this one) whose deals will pan out better than either of those deals ever had any chance to. Why? Because those players are paid like 4-5 WAR players and they have 5+ WAR upside. If they “fail,” they are 2-3 WAR, average players whereas those other guys “fail,” they become valueless replacement players.

    #175268
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I think the current trend is to try to find 3 WAR players but only pay them as a 1 WAR player. Only the smartest front offices can pull this off though. I am talking about players like Adam Duvall. He puts up a .772 OPS, 38HR, 113 RBI, 3.1 WAR, and was paid $2M.

    #175280
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    That was why I was on Robbie Ray the last few years. He was paid little and probably will win the AL Cy Young. Do you trust the Cards FO to make the right call on any of those low hanging fruit types? I don’t.

    #175281
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Do you trust the Cards FO to make the right call on any of those low hanging fruit types? I don’t.

    Probably not although they did well with Garcia, McFarland, LeBlanc, Happ, and Lester. They just waited a bit too long.

    They may not be able to pull it off like the Giants, Rays, and others but I get the sense that is what they want to try to do.

    #175288
    bccran
    Participant

    Good post, gscottar. They are indeed good at finding good players for reasonable dollars that contribute to the winning tradition.

    #175296
    Pork Twain
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I know I am in the minority on here but I have always been fine with them not going big on the free agent market. Too many of those guys have not worked out over the years for the teams that got them and I hate seeing so much money tied up on players that do not live up to their potential. I have had to see enough wasted salary space with Fowler, Carp and Carlos. I am happy we are not paying Albert, Heyward or Stanton salaries.

    #175302
    Pork Twain
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    For whatever crazy reason, it seems like the Cards have done much better through the trade market. I don’t get it.

    #175305
    bccran
    Participant

    The Cardinals haven’t done enough due diligence before signing a free agent. Leake had his own agenda. Dexter was an attitude issue. Miller was on a downslope. Etc., Etc., Etc.

    #175312
    PadsFS
    Participant

    Free

    stlcard25

    That was why I was on Robbie Ray the last few years. He was paid little and probably will win the AL Cy Young. Do you trust the Cards FO to make the right call on any of those low hanging fruit types? I don’t.

    Signing low-hanging fruit or diamonds in the rough are the Cardinals’ front office best attribute.

    Starting with Lohse and Ludwick in 08, Piniero in 09. The series of closers like Mujica in 12, Neshek in 14, Oh in 16, and Norris in 18. Both Mikolas in 18 and Kim in 20 were excellent pickups and there is more depending on the level of ‘low-hanging fruit’ that you decide, like getting Freese for Edmonds, or Lackey for Craig, Gyorko for Jay, or Gallegos for Adams in the trade department.

    The thing they have been poor at are giving out extensions, which is hard to fault after Molina, Wainwright, Garcia, Carpenter, and Wong — morphing into the 2nd extension for some of these in addition to extensions for Craig, Piscotty, Martinez, Dejong, and Mikolas.

    Also the non-diamond-in-the-rough FA signings haven’t worked out ~ Fowler, Cecil, Miller, Holland, and Leake.

    To me, there’s a happy middle – finding some value in the free agency market at the high-end or the low-end, but staying out of the middle (although here I am championing for Jon Gray and Kyle Schwarber haha)

    #175313
    cardsfan64
    Participant

    Free

    Actually got Yepez in the Adams trade. Gallegos came from the Yankees in the Luke Voit trade. But I agree for the most part. Trades seem to have worked out a bit better for the Cards, with an exception of the Ozuna trade. Gave up way too much young talent for an injured player because we were desperate for a big bat.

    #175361
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    This is a very realistic outlook for the offseason. Don’t expect a lot of spending.

    #175365
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I don’t think $22M gets us Stroman, a reliever and a LH bat. If it did I’d be happy about it, though.

    #175367
    bccran
    Participant

    Starters – Jack, Dakota, Miles, Waino, and either Woody, Reyes, Libby, Kim, Happ, or Lester.

    LH bat – Gorman, Donovan, Burleson.

    Bullpen – Gallegos, Hicks, Garcia, Helsley, Woody if not starting, Reyes if not starting, Whitley, Fernandez, Cabrera(L), McFarland(L), Thomas(L).

    #175403
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Flaherty-Wainwright-Hudson-Mikolas-Happ/Woodford. If its not Woodford… he stays stretched out at Memphis.

    Gallegos-Cabrera-Hicks-Garcia-Helsley-Reyes-Whitley-Fernandez-McFarland-Bosiokovic.

    But let’s see how ST shakes out. Only four months away.

    #175419
    bccran
    Participant

    I’m not sure if Mo is going to move the needle much this off season. Maybe an experienced utility OFer and a bullpen piece or two.

    #175420
    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    Free

    I’ll say it again. The only position where there is no guaranteed spot is at SS. Look at the following, they are all locks:
    C-Molina
    1B-Goldschmidt
    2B-Edman
    3B-Arenado
    LF-O’Neill
    CF-Bader
    RF-Carlson

    The only position that is NOT locked down is SS. That’s the only spot where we could see some kind of upgrade. If we make one or two marginal transactions to help the bench, bullpen, etc, we aren’t going to see much improvement unless the eight regulars improve upon last year’s numbers.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #175441
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    We could also make an upgrade with the DH position.

    #175452
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    So folks are assuming Edman cannot be an MLB starting SS so they could not add a second baseman?

    #175453
    858booyah
    Participant

    Free

    Viva El is closer than what people want to admit.

    #175462
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    #175463
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    So folks are assuming Edman cannot be an MLB starting SS so they could not add a second baseman?

    I definitely think Edman could be an everyday SS.

    #175464
    bccran
    Participant

    Edman was an excellent SS at Stanford. He played SS for the Cardinals all the way up through AA ball. At AAA, he played some SS, but was moved over to 2B to increase his versatility, because DeJong was firmly planted at SS. Anyone who doesn’t think Edman can be a good SS hasn’t followed his career in depth.

    #175466
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    It seems like a lot of people quickly typecast Edman as super utility guy. He’s done well at SS even at the MLB level when called upon. I wouldn’t assume that his breadth of positional skills means he lacks the depth to play everyday at any one position in the infield. He hasn’t looked as comfortable to me in the outfield.

    #175469
    Cardinal in France
    Participant

    Free

    It would seem making Edman our every day shortstop would solve several problems, so let’s just do it.

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