Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › So what are we going to do?
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October 15, 2021 at 9:27 am #17505414NyquisTParticipant
I’m thinking that Mo can be considered a sizable part of Shildt’s undoing. Forcing him to play high-priced underachievers didn’t help the locker room or the team’s production….. especially Fowler.
That Reyes faux pas is fresh in everyone’s mind…. Shildt will catch on somewhere and might come back to haunt us. Is MIN looking for a manager? ALC already has two ex-Card skippers.
October 15, 2021 at 9:56 am #175056I don’t know if Pugs is right about Shannon’s comment being one of the dots to be connected, but if so it seems like it would rule out taking on any big contracts, manager or players. A theory is that Shildt didn’t want to go through next season what he went through for 5 months out of 6 this season. It would present a scenario where we are looking at maybe a couple of marginal moves this winter at most.
At the least, I hope they can move DeJong so we do not have the wasted roster slot all next season. A LH reliever seems unavoidable also, but probably not a heavyweight. One of Mo’s toadies taking over for Shildt, and that’s about it.
I’m not going to be elbowing my way up to the ticket window because of a 17 game hot streak after watching a bad product on the field all season.
October 15, 2021 at 10:32 am #175057I may be totally wrong, but Mo seems to be the the type of boss we have all probably had, one who thinks if it isn’t his idea, it’s a bad idea. In other words his *^%$# smells like roses. Not sure, but I think it was the Mets where supposedly the GM was sending down decisions to the dugout. Sometime, I hope one of these guys actually tries managing. I can’t imagine the players would respect them.
October 15, 2021 at 10:39 am #175060So earlier is aid what I thought we should do…optimistic Jage
but the pessimist in me sees this happen:
-Waino and Yadi back
-Shidlt gone… Clapp, Marmol or Skip will be manager
-Albert gone and Edmonds brought in for hitting coach (“philisophical differences” were about Albert and Shildt backing him to the point of “he goes i go”…so Shildt goes…new guy brought in..magically Albert is gone because the new coach wants a “new voice” not because Albert was a failure (thus not Moz’s “failure” at retaining him in light of the stats that showed the downward offensive trend since his arrival).Moz and the FO save face without admitting Albert was mistake
-Lester or Happ will be courted but with the fact that they will be out of a spot all folks being healthy when the FO decides Reyes is ready for rotation spot means they look elsewhere
-Garcia, McF back
-extensions to Gallegos and Bader
-will consider Jack and Oneill for extensions but neither will happen
-Scherzer is approached but will not come for a discount…we are out…but we will make a big stink about “how hard we tried” to appease the locals
-LeBlanc will be brought back and penciled in (along with Woodford and Oviedo) for the 5 spot until the FO give Reyes the go ahead
-Hicks will be brought into camp as starter but will end up in pen
-Story is approached…but we draw a line in the sand on money and he goes to the highest bidder
-Chris Taylor is brought in because “We believe in Sosa and DeJong and Perez” and we need someone who can play everywhere instead of someone stuck to one spot…and obviously “the market” stops us from looking at anyone else.
-Rondon brought back for flexibility and “attitude”
-no other FA hitters are brought in because Gorman is real, and Nootbaar and Yepez…etc etc.
– in general the line of “the money off the books will go to extensions and Waino and Yadi” as well as “COVID has still been a major problem with our available money to look into the FA market”…also.. “Arenado’s contract shouldnt be forgotten”…. just excuse after excuse to be as cheap as possible to recoup the losses incurred from 2020 and 21 to the stakeholders…
– facing fan dissent and unhappiness with moves and obvious needs…club re-signs Pujols for bench
-enter Spring training with hope…
– injuries in ST, this year to the hitters…go into the season with at least 2 major hitter on IL…
– bad year…really bad year…. under .500
-excuses that “new coach needs to time to get situated” Maddux is thrown under the bus to appease the fans, and because he couldnt get a rotation filled with too old vets and too young kids to beat the Max Scherzers of the world…but maybe Madddux might just retire before it happensReality is probably in between both posts..
October 15, 2021 at 10:59 am #175062I think our 2022 team is set up to be strong. Like I said before, we are plenty good enough to win the division with the roster we have if we aren’t gutted by injuries again. I think a couple of smart, targeted upgrades will put us over the top instead of going after the big mega-contracts.
October 15, 2021 at 3:33 pm #175084This team is set up for mediocrity again if they don’t get serious in the off-season and bring in some big names. Schildt said the same thing and now he’s gone.
October 15, 2021 at 3:55 pm #175085It seems likely that without serious outside help we are more likely to see what we saw for 5 months than what we saw for one month.
October 15, 2021 at 4:27 pm #175090bccranParticipantmspaid – The problem with that, is that we have guys who are becoming big names. Guys we want to go with.
October 15, 2021 at 4:43 pm #175091It seems likely that without serious outside help we are more likely to see what we saw for 5 months than what we saw for one month.
That is true if you assume that 4/5 of our rotation will be on the IL most of the year again.
October 15, 2021 at 4:46 pm #175092If the Cardinals stay healthy next year they can probably win 90 games or so. If they dont stay healthy, who knows.
With a top of the line SS (Seager, Story, Correa, etc) they could win 95+ games and contend for a World Series title as long as everybody pretty much stays healthy.
r/Esteemed Rat
October 15, 2021 at 11:15 pm #1751041982 willieParticipantIf everyone stays healthy. That is a whole lot of ifs being it hasn’t happened in a long time. Until I see what our bullpen turns out to be, I’m not predicting anything.
October 16, 2021 at 6:36 am #175110I think our 2022 team is set up to be strong. Like I said before, we are plenty good enough to win the division with the roster we have if we aren’t gutted by injuries again. I think a couple of smart, targeted upgrades will put us over the top instead of going after the big mega-contracts.
The Brewers’ rotation will have something to say about our division favorite status. I’d say next year looks like an 88 win team with this roster, and a wild card.
More importantly, does this team have what it takes to win in October? Meaning, could they beat the Dodgers more than 1 in 5 or 6 series? I’d say we are at least a couple of star players shy of having more than a puncher’s chance there. We can waste the last two years of cheap Flaherty and O’Neill plus and Goldy and Arenado’s prime, or we can play it safe and have extra money to spend in 4-5 years.
October 16, 2021 at 7:12 am #175111That is true if you assume that 4/5 of our rotation will be on the IL most of the year again.
The rotation is not the cause of dragging bottom in most offense categories for 5 months.
October 16, 2021 at 4:18 pm #175139I think they are committed to Gorman and Yepez being the offensive upgrades. They may find low-hanging fruit like D. Peralta or C. Dickerson, but they will not block them.
The rotation is precarious, but they won’t block Hudson, Reyes, or Hicks with the likes of JA Happ.
I would search for failing veteran starters with k rates above 11 but high BA against due to hitters killing them the second and third times through the order. This is where great relievers are found at failing starter prices. It worked with Eckersly, Izzy, Ryan Franklin, and countless others.October 16, 2021 at 4:35 pm #175140Off-topic: Boston leads Houston 8-0 after two innings – a grand slam in each inning. Wow!
October 16, 2021 at 7:25 pm #175143I think we will have a much better picture of the offseason when the new Manager is named. If they stay in house I don’t look for much change. If they go after a name promises will need to be made. Maybe a player or two picked up to compete. Remember a couple other Teams are also looking.
.October 17, 2021 at 7:34 am #175147bccranParticipantThey need a better bench and another starter. Can they fill those needs from the inside?
October 17, 2021 at 8:19 am #175149They might think so. Everybody they sent to AFL might be guys they are looking at for the active roster or ready depth. They might think Donovan can be the LH bench bat infield UT guy. They have a couple of starters out there. They like Yepez and Nootbaar, another LH bat. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised. It is easy to see how Shildt could have objected to managing that kind of squad next year.
October 17, 2021 at 9:18 am #175154bccranParticipantCan they fill that #5 starter slot with Woody, Reyes, Oviedo, Libby, etc?
Will the bench be adequate with Knizner, Rondon, Nootbaar, Yepez, Burleson, Donovan, etc.
October 17, 2021 at 10:36 am #175158Can they fill that #5 starter slot with Woody, Reyes, Oviedo, Libby, etc?
They need better than a #5 starter.
October 17, 2021 at 10:45 am #175159The better question is can they fill the #5 slot plus cover injury attrition among all 5, keeping in mind that 3 of the known 4 are coming back from injury and the other is 40.
October 17, 2021 at 10:48 am #175160They need better than a #5 starter.
Maybe that’s what Shildt said.
October 17, 2021 at 10:51 am #175161PadsFSParticipantI’m personally on the Jon Gray bandwagon of late. I think he would fit in really well here and he’s going to get a bump leaving Coors Field behind.
October 17, 2021 at 11:31 am #175164The rotation is not the cause of dragging bottom in most offense categories for 5 months.
In my opinion it was the injuries to the rotation that prevented us from winning the division. Look at what we did at the deadline. We brought in veteran arms not veteran bats. What happened? We settled down and went on a big run.
October 17, 2021 at 11:34 am #175165The Brewers’ rotation will have something to say about our division favorite status. I’d say next year looks like an 88 win team with this roster, and a wild card.
More importantly, does this team have what it takes to win in October? Meaning, could they beat the Dodgers more than 1 in 5 or 6 series? I’d say we are at least a couple of star players shy of having more than a puncher’s chance there. We can waste the last two years of cheap Flaherty and O’Neill plus and Goldy and Arenado’s prime, or we can play it safe and have extra money to spend in 4-5 years.
I am not advocating we roll into opening day with this exact roster. I just think a few smaller, smarter moves would be the way to go over rolling the dice on a mega deal that might go south and hamstring you for five years. People laughed at the Giants for making smaller moves the last few years and they responded by winning 106 games this year. The key is you have to know who to pick and how to develop them into your system.
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