- This topic has 547 replies, 44 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Does anyone who watched the 2020 and 2021 seasons really think the Cardinals have enough starting pitching depth?
To refresh memories (from 2021 alone)…
Starters to spend major time on the IL:
Martinez (season ending)
Flaherty (several months)
Kim (multiple times)
Mikolas (most of the season)
LeBlanc (season ending)Starters to flame out in-season:
Gant
Ponce de Leon (after IL time)Starters to pitch the whole season WITHOUT IL time:
40-year-old WainwrightStarters leaving the team as free agents:
Martinez
Kim
Lester
LeBlanc
HappWelcome back Skip. A definite youth movement afoot within the entire organization. Of the 5 FA starters, my wish list to return would be Kim and “Lucky” LeBlanc. And does anyone actually believe that Waino will be hanging them up at season’s end if his ’22 body of work resembles anything close to his ’21? No matter what Waino has said, I would not count him out for ’23 just yet.
The Cards were caught in 2021 with minor league pitchers who were on the cusp, but were not quite ready for prime time. Those pitchers are very nearly ready now, so it will be really interesting to see how they feed into the equation in 2022. Woodford.
Liberatore. Oviedo. Reyes (as a starter),
Thompson. Rondon. Pallante. Thomas. etc.
Lots to be upbeat about.Bccran – your point is unrelated to Brian’s point. Brian’s point was that injuries happen every year. We’ve lost 5 starters from last year. To say there is no room to add veteran pitchers is at best, not accurate.
It will be interesting to see how the pitching staff is configured next season. I am not sure Mo will be looking for a traditional starter type this winter . Traditional roles are getting obscure around MLB. Maybe will try the opener approach. Maybe guys go once through the order and that’s it. We will probably go with whatever the analytics department thinks is the way to be competitive for the least cost.
This entire organization needs more pitching, from St. Louis all the way to Palm Beach. Lack of pitching depth is why we didn’t win the NLC and why our minor league affiliates had one of the worst seasons ever. Plain and simple.
And I am glad Skip is back in the Cardinal dugout. I would have been fine with him as manager but hopefully he and Marmol will make a good brain trust.
LA – I didn’t say we should stand pat. I fully expect them to sign a Lester or Happ type. But I wouldn’t look for a big ticket addition. They know they have Libby, Woodford, Oviedo, Thompson, etc. close to ready. It’s why they used the term “tweak”.
It’s very doubtful that Woodford becomes a rotation contributor, let alone a real help. Oviedo looks like a reliever and although Thompson has looked better in Arizona, he’s still walking way too many guys. The only one I expect to make meaningful contributions to the big league rotation in 2022 is Liberatore.
The Cards are very in need of another legit starter. I’d be surprised if they don’t add someone at the Alex Wood level or better.
Jake Woodford in Sep/Oct –
Games – 6
Starts – 5
ERA – 2.51
WHIP – 1.081
IP – 28.2
H – 23
K/W – 2.25
OPS against – .560Are you sure you want to rule him out as a starter? Positive?
I have a great deal of confidence that Woodford is not a starter in St Louis long term, yes. Certainly he’s not someone to depend on for anything beyond middle relief and spot starts as a John Gant type. He was carefully managed and pitched well in September, but even then his xFIP (predictive of results with average HR/FB rates) was 5.13. Busch helps keep some fly balls in the yard, to be sure. He’s a decent piece to keep around, just not someone you pin a season’s hopes on.
Max Scherzer had 7.2 WAR last year. Besides Wainwright and Gallegos, no other Cardinals pitcher produced above 2 WAR. The biggest possible upgrade the Cardinals can make this off-season is pitching.
LA –
Flaherty was hurt
Hudson was out hurt
Kim was hurt several times
Mikolas was hurtWhat did you expect as far as WAR?
Bccran – 2 WAR is considered average. We only had two pitchers who achieved that lofty benchmark. We need pitching upgrades.
Just because a pitcher was hurt, doesn’t mean they’re injury prone, LA. Flaherty’s was a fluke. And while batting. His first and only injury. Hudson’s TJ was once in a career surgery. He should be even stronger now. Waino’s a bull. That’s your top 3. 4 and 5 can be .500 pitchers and you’re still fine.
Young pitchers have to pitch, and it requires you place some degree of faith in them and your manager. We need more pitching for sure, but where and when are the big puzzlers.
A closer who moves Reyes into the rotation (I haven’t heard a single report that makes me confident in Hicks and Gallegos will need support) moves the needle for me.
The next need is simply innings. Last year once again showed the value of our defense. Healthy, viable starters become quality starters pitching to Yadi in front of five gold gloves.
I go after Iglasias and then three Heaney, Norris types to compete for rotation spots with bullpen births for the losers.The key word is tweak. No huge contract additions. That means a #5 starter type or two. You can start with Lester, Happ, or Kim.
I dont know bccran. I wonder what he will want?
3 years 100 million – wont happen anywhere.
3 years 75 million – cant see that either.
3 years 50 million – hmmmmmm
We have signed LHP T.J. McFarland to a one-year contract for the 2022 season. pic.twitter.com/5r0LtmTBvA
— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) November 8, 2021
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.