- This topic has 547 replies, 44 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Goeman should get the chance to show if he can play 2B and do better than .300 OBP. Yepez and/or an acquisition will probably DH. Edman would be a good UT/PH bench guy. Could play any of 7 positions in a pinch and some speed on the bases.
This is beyond nonsensical!
Goeman should get the chance to show if he can play 2B and do better than .300 OBP. Yepez and/or an acquisition will probably DH. Edman would be a good UT/PH bench guy. Could play any of 7 positions in a pinch and some speed on the bases.
This is exactly how I think, too. There’s no way the Cards are going to let their prized prospect DH unless he’s totally incompetent at 2B. Personally, Gorman has shown me that he’s very adjustable to each level and I expect his MLB line to be something like .260/.340/.480 with 30+ HRs when he’s playing 2B every day. That’s more than enough to move Edman to a utility role.
I believe 1965 may have been the last year that the Cardinals had an official team captain. But we all know that Albert was this team’s captain until he headed west for supposed greener pastures. Then Yadi took over the reins of team el Capitan. After next season, when Yadi and Waino depart, I have little doubt that Tommy Edman will be this team’s official unofficial captain. (in President Biden’s hushed voice) ….”team captains are NOT utility players”……”team captains are NOT utility players”.
Those who have done their homework appreciate Edman’s skill at SS. He was the defensive SS of the year in the baseball rich PAC 12, when he was at Stanford. He played 234 games at SS coming through the system, more than any other position.
And yet people question his prowess at that position. Why?The only defensive metrics we have for the minors comes from Baseball Prospectus. They had Edman as a very slightly below average SS by their metrics. He was better at every level at 2B. That would be ok if he’s moved to SS, which would likely mean Dejong or Sosa would be traded. I could live with that, especially if Edman’s bat improves. I know you believe that will happen. I hope it does, but the trend is worrying for sure.
After next season, when Yadi and Waino depart, I have little doubt that Tommy Edman will be this team’s official unofficial captain. (in President Biden’s hushed voice) ….”team captains are NOT utility players”……”team captains are NOT utility players”.
Being a utility player isn’t that bad, Pugs. It just means they have the capability of playing more positions than just one. If Dejong were to be traded, Edman could play 50-60 games at 2B and 80-90 games at SS and thus play as many games as anybody on the team. If the Cards wanted to really upgrade SS (there’s rumor that they like Story a lot), he could play some 2B, SS, 3B and any of the OF positions. Having a guy like that with a decent bat is very valuable on a team with big October hopes. Tommy could be our Ben Zobrist, to use a repugnant example (not that Ben is bad, but the disgusting C*bs are).
25, if I was Edman, I would be working out all winter on CF and SS defense. I would be hoping I could show the Cardinals that I am an above average fielder at those positions, also. The writing is on the wall that Gorman will be the starting 2nd baseman within the next year. If the Cardinals also sign a SS, that leaves CF as the only other outlet to be the starter. If Yepez hits in the majors like he did this year in AAA, he will be the DH.
For everyone who believes that Edman makes the Cardinals go, consider this: during the Cardinals’ historic winning streak, Edman hit .257/.278/.311/.589 and scored 10 runs. The Cardinals as a team hit .292/.341/.540/.881 and scored 115 runs. In other words, Edman hit poorly and scored less than 10% of the Cardinals’ runs as the leadoff hitter in every game he started. The rest of the year, the Cardinals’ record was 73-72 and they scored 591 runs. Edman scored 81 runs. He did not make them go this year.
I’d factor in his doubles and stolen bases. Both of which he was one of the leaders in Major League Baseball. Also, sometimes just having a spark plug in the lineup who gives 110% all the time makes others better. His hustle gives off energy.
If we had 8 Tommy Edmans, we’d win 130 ballgames every year…..140 if our starting pitching stayed reasonably healthy.
bccran said:
Those who have done their homework appreciate Edman’s skill at SS. He was the defensive SS of the year in the baseball rich PAC 12, when he was at Stanford. He played 234 games at SS coming through the system, more than any other position.
And yet people question his prowess at that position. Why?Here are several other factoids that are far, far more relevant to the current situation than college results, minor league playing time, how scrappy he is, how he plays at 110% and all those happy words.
During Edman’s rookie MLB season, he played in 92 games, but Mike Shildt did not play him at shortstop – even one inning. Edman played five other positions, but not SS. That was not coincidence.
Even though Edman has been the starting second baseman, the Cardinals moved their top hitting prospect Gorman to the same position. That was not coincidence, either.
Edman has reportedly improved his defense at short since his rookie season. Even so, he has played the position so sparingly in MLB, just 17 games over three years to date, there isn’t much to go on.
I do not know if Edman would be MLB average or above at short, but the metrics I have seen suggest he is above average at second. Gorman may or may not be, but if he comes anywhere close to realizing his offensive potential, he is going to play every day.
Shildt was madly in love with Paul DeJong during Edman’s rookie year. Ozzie Smith wouldn’t have stolen playing time from DeJong that season at short. If Edman gets supplanted from the infield, he’ll be starting somewhere in the outfield.
Pugs, I respectfully disagree. Shildt later admitted they were not comfortable with Edman at short initially. I heard this directly with my own ears. I tend to agree with the others who have suggested that Edman’s eventual role will be to start at a number of positions, not one as the primary.
Exactly right, Pugs. DeJong played 159 games that year. He was firmly planted at SS. It had nothing to do with Edman’s skill or lack of skill at the position.
Actually, that is incorrect. Here are the games played at SS in 2019:
DeJong 157
Munoz 17
Edman 0Games played at SS in 2020 plus 2021:
Edman 17
So, in DeJong’s ironman season, Munoz played as many games at short as Edman has in his entire career to date.
Munoz was the utility man who was the backup SS. Edman was not. Edman was being groomed at 2B because he was blocked at SS. By the way, Baseball Cube has DeJong playing 159 games at SS that season. That’s where I got my information.
bccran, I explained what the manager said when later asked why he didn’t play Edman at short in 2019. Are you suggesting he lied? That I lied about what I heard him say? That you know otherwise?
I have nothing against Edman, but I don’t accept things I know are not correct.
Also, Edman was not being groomed at second base in 2019. He played more at third base that season than all the other positions put together. He was a non-shortstop utility player.
I’m not in the mood to argue, Brian. It’s been a long business day with lots of challenges and the hour is late. Agreeing to disagree is not a bad thing. And also, hearsay is hearsay.
One thing I don’t understand is that if Edman was being groomed at 2B because he was blocked at SS, why would the Cardinals move him to SS now? During the 2018 and 2019 seasons combined, DeJong has a 100 OPS+ so he was exactly league average. During the 2020 and 2021 seasons combined, DeJong has an 86 OPS+. Edman over the last 2 seasons has a 92 OPS+. Sosa had a 106 OPS+ in 2020 and a lifetime 104 OPS+. It seems to make more sense to play Sosa at SS if he continues to hit.
FWIW, DeJong played in 159 games in 2019, and started in 156 of them, all at short. He pinch hit three times, after one of which he stayed in the game at SS. So 157 games played at SS is correct as is 159 games overall.
We all have our own opinions about various players based on what we have seen in the past. Players get hot and impress us and then go cold and disappoint us. I am sure when ST rolls around all will get a fair shot at playing time, and their performance will dictate who plays what position. I imagine all on this board want everyone wearing the birds on the bat to do well, so that the team can win a championship. Wouldn’t that be something… that the coach’s would have a real hard time deciding who to play where because they are all playing great?
Edman was never going to get many reps at SS because the Cards had already committed $26 million to PDJ to play the position. I don’t think it mattered if the Cardinals felt Edman would do very well or poorly at SS, there were other positions of more pressing need. They certainly couldn’t have been comfortable with Munoz playing SS after 2018, he was awful as the stats clearly show, yet they continued to play him in 2019. You’re limited by your roster. The Red Sox have used him mostly at 3B. He’s no shortstop. I guess the Cards liked his arm there, but you can’t throw what you can’t field.
The important point is going forward. Shildt said last year the Cards were confident with Edman at SS. I think that means Marmol will feel the same way, unless Mo changes his mind and makes a move. My guess is no big moves will be made for the infield, and come next Spring, Edman, Sosa & DeJong will sort it out.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.