October 18, 2021 at 4:00 pm #175279MP415dParticipantFree
Padres is tough gig a lot egos in that clubhouse but Shildt may have the right interpersonal skills to succeed there. Just a better bullpen managing strategy and who knows.October 18, 2021 at 7:39 pm #175289SoonerinNCParticipantPaid - Annual
It is possible that the analytics thing is a smokescreen used to justify the firing. It doesn’t fit Shildt’s attitude and personality to be unwilling to try something that supposedly leads to success in other organizations. I also recall a story that said that the Cardinals were among the leaders in baseball in the use of defensive shifts. I think that requires some use of analytics.
I would be more inclined to think that the conflict would come from:
1) Shildt demanding that he not be restricted in player and playing time decisions.
2) Difference of opinion about the coaches. From what I could determine from the Cardinals story he only specifically pointed out Marmol. I think he had a real problem with Albert. While he was constantly conferring with Maddux and Marmol during games I didn’t see much interaction with Albert.
3) Hard to believe that the company man that Shildt has been that he would fight much about building from within. He may not agree but he has done pretty well with that approach and I don’t see him making a red line issue about that.
Shildt in his farewell statement showed his usual class. He said what most decent people would say and took the high road.
Did he get a chance to inform his players before that announcement. If not, that was pretty tacky of DeWitt and Mo.October 18, 2021 at 9:32 pm #175293Euro DandyParticipantFree
Sooner, I’ve had similar thoughts, especially thoughts 1), 2), and your last paragraph.October 19, 2021 at 6:15 am #175294Pork TwainParticipantPaid - Annual
I do care what MP thought about him, just as much as I care what you thought about him. I did not come to this thread to praise him and overlook his warts, I came here to discuss why we thought this happened. He seems like a great guy and has been nothing but a class act the entire time he was here, but we all have our faults.
I am sure this is deeper than we know and is likely over Mo’s ego. Who knows…October 19, 2021 at 9:14 am #175308gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
More thoughts from Bernie. Number 9 is probably the most important.October 19, 2021 at 10:05 am #175316Pork TwainParticipantPaid - Annual
Great write-up by Bernie.October 19, 2021 at 2:06 pm #175321
The only value in Reading Bernie is tô knows if the Wind hás shifted.October 19, 2021 at 2:09 pm #175322
I think Shildt may have gotten cocky. He may have felt confident that if he got fired that he would get another job.October 19, 2021 at 5:00 pm #175339SoonerinNCParticipantPaid - Annual
I would like to know what about analytics does Shildt object to so much. I would like to see specifics. Analytics is an awfully big topic.October 19, 2021 at 5:18 pm #175340BlackHillsCardParticipantFree
I think Shildt may have gotten cocky. He may have felt confident that if he got fired that he would get another job.
He will get another job in MLB, specifically as a manager.October 19, 2021 at 6:00 pm #175341mspaidParticipantFree
You’re absolutely right.October 19, 2021 at 6:07 pm #175342blingboyParticipantPaid - Annual
I would like to know what about analytics does Shildt object to so much.
Who says he objects to any aspect of analytics? He may have just been too insistent that the FO needed to do something this winter that was not what the FO had in mind.October 20, 2021 at 3:48 pm #175369Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - AnnualOctober 20, 2021 at 4:47 pm #175371bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
I was unsure exactly what “analytics” referred to in relation to hitting, but read a good piece on VEB about it and Jeff Albert. Specifically analytics teaches guys to hit the ball in the air, and that a ball hit in the air and pulled provides the best outcome.
Shildt watching our guys flail away trying to do that no doubt was a part of his coolness towards the approach. There were probably many times when just a batted ball the other way could have changed the outcome of a game. And maybe he thinks we have guys who are not suited to that style, but are still valuable to the club.
Personally, I would say that while the pulled-ball-in-the-air is fine many times, there are also times to shorten up and get the ball in play. All situations during the course of a game are not equal.October 20, 2021 at 4:53 pm #175373gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
My guess is it has more to do with payroll analytics, i.e… trying to do more with less.October 20, 2021 at 7:31 pm #175377PugsleyAddamsParticipantPaid - Annual
Nice Shildt writeup. Hard to believe it’s been 15 years since that article……you were just a young pup back then, Brian. Those were the days of The Birdhouse, Oquendo, JModene, DizzyDean and Ray Mileur. Has anyone here heard anything from Ray and his lovely wife, Anne? Hope all is good.October 20, 2021 at 8:58 pm #175381bccranParticipant
Was anyone on Dickie Thon?October 20, 2021 at 11:03 pm #175385mspaidParticipantFree
Thank you, I’ve been saying that for years.October 21, 2021 at 3:24 am #175386blingboyParticipantPaid - Annual
Traditionally a manager could decide who is and is not on his coaching staff. I guess that is not the case now days. At least presently in the Cardinals’ organization. That would affect who they could or couldn’t approach about the manager job.October 21, 2021 at 10:50 am #175401Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
Clearly that is not the case or Shildt might still be employed. Also, Mo said he hoped to have the entire 2020 staff back under the new manager (excepting the one he might promote).
The days of a TLR running his own fiefdom from the dugout are about over. The field manager is more like the supervisor of the coaches rather than their boss. The front office hires the coaches and the manager. The manager’s job is to get the 26 players he is provided ready, set the lineup and run the game. Some want to expand that role into the turf of others and we saw how that worked for Shildt.
Look at the defending World Champions. In the playoffs the Dodgers have used a reliever as an opener and the manager admitted the decision was made by the organization, not him alone. The world has changed.
Back to the Cardinals. I am pretty sure none of the leading candidates would ask to name their own coaches. If they did, they almost certainly would not get the job.October 21, 2021 at 12:50 pm #175409
I was on Dickie Thon. Why?October 21, 2021 at 12:55 pm #175410
Do we have any real reporting or confirmation that Shildt wanted tô bring in veterans? Could it have been the opposite? I have only seen speculation. Old school guys generally favor internal developmentOctober 21, 2021 at 4:29 pm #175415MrperkinsParticipantFree
Carioca, I think he asked about Dickie Thon because that is where this forum evolved from. I joined it as Fanhome, which I believe was in 2002.(when I joined, not the entirety of fanhome) Back then it still said exactly when you joined and I believe I was 2 weeks after Brian.
If you still remember the pink shirt debacle you have been here a whileOctober 21, 2021 at 4:36 pm #175416MrperkinsParticipantFree
Was it DizzyDean that got really upset when someone made what could either be considered complimentary or licentious about his niece?October 21, 2021 at 4:55 pm #175417bccranParticipant
Just checking to see how long some posters have been on Cardinal forums like this. Wasn’t Dickie Thon around maybe 20 years ago?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.