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All this player shuffling is dependent on the org giving up on Gorman at 2B. Fat chance.
Gorman is not blocking Donovan, Donovan is our DH, and Oli likes his D flexibility to rest other players from the field (while they DH).
You want to make room for Walker? Fine, it takes at least 4 outfielders anyway. Play the hot bats.
You want to make room for Winn? Cut DeJong and you have Edman, Gorman and Winn as your 3 middle infielders, play the hot bats.
You want to add a productive bat to the lineup? Catcher seems like an obvious choice for how many years now?
Jj-cf-stl
Best comment of the day! I think that is exactly what we need to do! Winn instead of Dejong is a no brainer and Walker in outfield would be great! We will find a place for Donovan, kind of a super sub as you say! I would like them to look at Christian Vasquez as a possible full time catcher! He hits pretty and and defends pretty well and would not cost a fortune! I would hire you to take Mo’s place if I could! Lol!Edman is a proven gold glove candidate SS. He’s the incumbent. If Winn wants the position, he’ll have to beat Edman out for it. Which won’t be easy.
Edman’s arbitration cost may do the work for Winn, though. By 2024, Arb2 Edman will be fending off rookie salary Winn, Donovan and Gorman in the middle infield.
25 – I’m not sure that will be the sole deciding factor.
If Edman is playing extremely well, they’ll pay him extremely well.Anyone see Bader completely misplay Nayler’s RBI double in the visitor half of the 10th at Yankee Stadium? Harrison took a horrible first step and then seemed to lose sight of the baseball.
1td, that can’t be. I was ready to put some money on Bader being the Postseason MVP. I didn’t know of anything about the playoffs today until the last 30 minutes. Just tuned in to the Braves-Phils then. I had forgotten the Yankees were playing until I read your post. I’m sure I’ll see a replay.
EuroDandy…Not sure I’ve ever seen him take such a bad route to the baseball when he was Cardinal. Nayler hit it good, but Bader simply must not have seen it. He started to his left when his first step should have been back. Ball sailed over his head into the RCF gap.
bccran wrote:
Edman is a proven gold glove candidate SS. He’s the incumbent. If Winn wants the position, he’ll have to beat Edman out for it. Which won’t be easy.
Recent history reminder:
Wong is a proven gold glove candidate 2B. He’s the incumbent. If Edman wants the position, he’ll have to beat Wong out for it. Which won’t be easy.
Only it didn’t happen that way…
Gorman’s 2022 trial at 2B looked pretty bad to me. Stats don’t look too good either. DRS was -6 in 548 innings, which projects to about -16 over a full season of innings. He played 2B like a DH, and if 2B is his most valuable position, he either must improve a lot soon or he’ll be a DH. If 2B doesn’t work out, I’d like to see him try the OF. How do we know 2B is “his” most valuable position? We don’t. Next year will reveal a lot.
BW…Wong’s never crossed HP more than 70 times during a season in his 10 year career. Edman scored 94 runs in ’22 and 91 runs in ’21. In addition to scoring runs, which is still relatively important, Edman plays SS. Wong doesn’t.
You miss my point, 1tough. I will be more explicit. More expensive players, even important ones, can be replaced if much cheaper good alternatives become available.
BW…I’ll go along with that, but in order for them to be a good alternative at a cheaper price, they first have to prove they can play with the big kids.
Cheaper, good alternatives are mutually exclusive terms. Cheaper usually means they aren’t very good. That’s why they’re cheap. The Cardinals have been doing that for years and that is the problem. Change the business model, buy expensive and watch the magic.
The Cardinals have actually shown a good deal of contract loyalty to their core players. Edman is developing into part of that core. He’s the kind of player the Cardinals want. Wong wasn’t.
bccran said:
Edman is developing into part of that core. He’s the kind of player the Cardinals want. Wong wasn’t.
That is not fact. in reality, the facts indicate the exact opposite.
When Wong was heading into his arbitration years, the Cards gave him a five-year contract worth $25.5 MM plus a sixth-year option (which the Cards turned down). By all indications, he was among the team’s core.
Edman is still going year-to-year, but is now at about the same place Wong was in terms of experience when he got his big contract. How the organization really feels about Edman may show itself if they try to lock him up all way to 2-3 years into free agency as they did with Wong.
To say Wong wasn’t the kind of player the Cards wanted is just plain wrong. They gave him a huge multi-year contract long before they had to. They just didn’t want to pay him $12.5 million for the last year when they had a minimum-salary replacement ready – which is my ONLY point in bringing this up. It happened before and it could happen again.
nate said:
Cheaper, good alternatives are mutually exclusive terms. Cheaper usually means they aren’t very good. That’s why they’re cheap.
Good gravy, nate! Are you really pretending that you don’t know that all MLB salaries are artificially depressed for 0-6 year players? Surely we don’t have to explain that, do we?
People inside the organization say Wong didn’t make the adjustments requested by the Cardinals. That played into the decision not to retain him.
Wongs free agency (club option declined) came at a bad time for he and the Cardinals. Ownership had just gone thru 2020 with limited attendance and they were looking to cut costs in 2021.
Edman in place of Wong, I thought, was a no-brainer waiting to happen. I went as far as predicting ownership would be willing to let Wong walk away without compensation, which led to the Jamie Garcia article.
It was about cutting costs, and we aren’t worse off with Edman.
bccran, you are off base again. Carpenter’s bad two-year extension was granted a year BEFORE COVID. He was coming off his career best year, having finished in the top 10 in the MVP vote. Just as in the case of Wong, the Cardinals later declined their option for his final year.
Yeah, well they should have known that they were going to realize less profits with all those cardboard fans in the seats. No beer or hot dog sales are among the countless drawbacks. You’d think they would have known that.
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