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November 18, 2022 at 10:29 pm #207198
Bellingers last 900 PA’s
.193 / .256 / .355 / .611 / 64 ops+DeJongs last 813 PA’s
.196 / .280 / .351 / .631 / 76 ops+November 18, 2022 at 10:39 pm #207199Without seeing those numbers I would have guessed they’d have been close, but DeJong’s never hit the wall at Daytona. His numbers can’t be attributed to injury.
November 18, 2022 at 11:02 pm #207201I fear the devil I know over the monster from foreign lands. Bellinger seems more likely to recover, but I prefer ascending players over reclamation projects. I want Bellinger, but Noot and Burleson for free are the better bet.
By the way, did James Naile,Packy Naughton and Jake Walsh just survive the winter?November 19, 2022 at 6:55 am #207209Nigel Y asked:
By the way, did James Naile,Packy Naughton and Jake Walsh just survive the winter?
Not necessarily. Players can be outrighted off the roster at any time (with the risk of being claimed by another organization). They can also be traded or released.
November 19, 2022 at 7:29 am #207211I would too.
November 19, 2022 at 9:32 am #2072122022 home/road splits:
ERA: home 3:31, road 4.30
W/L: home 53/28, road 40/41
WHIP: home 1.193, road 1.352November 19, 2022 at 10:35 am #207215Bellingers last 900 PA’s
.193 / .256 / .355 / .611 / 64 ops+DeJongs last 813 PA’s
.196 / .280 / .351 / .631 / 76 ops+Exactly. I don’t see the fascination with Bellinger. For the last two years, all everyone wants to do is get rid of DeJong. Now people want a player that has been even worse?
November 19, 2022 at 12:00 pm #207220Mo might take the chance to address the LH bat and CF coverage issues. It would have to be low hanging fruity enough though.
November 19, 2022 at 2:39 pm #2072311TD, where do you get $150k for a obg league GM? I best the average is over a million (certainly if you include Prez/GM types like No.)
November 19, 2022 at 4:01 pm #207235CC…Well, that’s even better.
November 20, 2022 at 7:27 am #207248In thinking about the catcher situation, a stray thought crossed my mind, being that Herrera only has one option year left, not two as I had been thinking.(He was added to the 40 man after the 2020 season and optioned out in ST 2021, and again in 2022.) So this coming season will be the last the club will have the choice to have him playing everyday in Memphis. After that it would have to be either playing or bench sitting in STL. I am not sure how that affects the thinking about what to do this winter but it seems like it might somehow.
Another random thought. Woodford broke into the bigs in 2020, but was not optioned out, so he has only burned two option years, not three as I had thought. That means he can do the Memphis shuttle again in 2023 but not after that.
One more is that Hicks is out of options, and I think he has 5 years service time if his opted out 2020 counted, so if he runs into control issues, which he might, then working on it in Memphis will not be an available choice. If he’s pulling a 5+ BB/9 again, which he might, it will have to be 6-7th inning guy duty again while making arb money. He’s talented and only 26, but the feasibility of waiting for him to keep the wheels on is getting problematic.
November 20, 2022 at 7:33 am #207249bccranParticipant3 players have no business on the 40 man – Naile, VerHagen, and Naughton.
November 20, 2022 at 8:28 am #207252What is the objective? The Cardinals already have three roster openings. I doubt they will need five or six, but in the event they do, two of those three could be candidates to be cut. Due to his contract, VerHagen is the exception. It would be shortsighted to cut him now before they see how he looks in the spring when healthy.
November 20, 2022 at 9:00 am #207253bccranParticipantMaybe some posters don’t realize the 32 year old VerHagen’s major league track record over the past 7 years.
2016 – ERA 7.12 (Tigers)
2017 – ERA 5.77 (Tigers)
2018 – ERA 4.63 (Tigers)
2019 – ERA 5.90 (Tigers)
2022 – ERA 6.65 (Cardinals)November 20, 2022 at 9:39 am #207260VerHagan was a Hail Mary signing to begin with. His value was multi-inning relief/emergency starter ability, with the hope he refined things enough in Japan to return to MLB. But there was never any justification for thinking he would perform beyond middle relief level and he basically turned into a one inning middle relief guy who issued too many walks while making $2.5M. We should also remember that, besides the hip, he did an IL stint earlier this year for a sore shoulder. If he’s healthy we will have an OKish middle relief guy making $3M. Between him and Hicks we could have a 6th-7th inning tandem making $4.5M and having trouble throwing strikes.
November 20, 2022 at 9:50 am #207262bccranParticipantNaile? He turns 30 in a few months and has pitched a grand total of 7 innings at the major league level.
Why is he on the 40 man? Why is he in the organization?November 20, 2022 at 9:52 am #207263Not only does VerHagen have an awful MLB track record, but he was brought here because of an alleged forte (high GB%) he picked up in Japan that 1) his hip injuries and 2) the change in the shift rule have wholly wiped out (if it was ever there).
In short, he should be given a short leash and then, when he fails as we know he will, cut the dog loose.November 20, 2022 at 9:57 am #207264Again, please step back and explain the objective in cutting VerHagen NOW. What can be gained? What is the benefit?
The money is already committed and the roster spot is not needed at this time. His past record before coming here is the same as it was a year ago.
Barring any logic behind it, one must assume this is just a Sunday rant. Perhaps folks are lining up their new whipping boy for 2023 now that Dickerson is gone?
November 20, 2022 at 11:49 am #207269VerHagen was getting key roles before his injuries. It is only because you saw an injured pitcher not perform consistently well in key situations that you are down on him. We didn’t know he was injured in real time, and you fail to take it into account.
November 20, 2022 at 11:53 am #207270Perhaps folks are lining up their new whipping boy for 2023
That would be premature at this point. We don’t know what Mo might drag home this winter or to replace ST injury attrition. There could be a real doozie. Once the opening day roster comes into focus there is likely to be a prime whipping boy candidate or two, but Verhagen is depth, so we won’t come up empty.
November 20, 2022 at 12:53 pm #207272Brian is right in that VerHagen’s salary is already on the books for 2023 so you might as well see if he has anything to offer in spring training before cutting him loose. Ranting about why he was signed to a two year deal in the first place is a legit gripe.
November 20, 2022 at 2:05 pm #207276VerHagen is just another in the too-long list of examples of Mo being bad at signing relievers to contracts. I fear for Gallegos’ performance going forward.
Actually it would be best to let VerHagen go now. That way the Cards won’t see the mirage of something valuable in him during ST that you know they will — value that nobody else would see — just because already spent cash happened. Yes, the money is spent and is just another Mo sunk cost blunder waiting to happen by adding on to an already bad decision. These are the things that contribute to keeping the Cards out of the money in October.
November 20, 2022 at 2:16 pm #207278the mirage of something valuable
Well said. Best seen through money colored glasses.
November 20, 2022 at 2:30 pm #207279In the span of one week, VerHagen, Naile and Naughton went from the “pretty well set” list, to “no business on the 40man”.
November 20, 2022 at 2:32 pm #207280Johnny certainly hasn’t had any luck concerning the signing of pitchers of either the BP or SP variety, but anyone who watched and is reasonably objective knows what kept them out of the money in Oct. of ’22, and it had not a thing to do with money or contracts.
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