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thanks for the write up on that article
seems a catcher and an OF bat are on the grocer list
20m to spend
I still see Contreras as in play if we want
or
use some prospects for Murphy and spend the money on an OF bat
or
Murphy and Laureano combo deal?
or
spend money on a bigger pitcher
and/or
trade Hudson for a bateasiest road is:
– Contreras
– trade for an OF bat or go with what we have, maybe find a Dickerson type for cheap
– go with what we have for pitchingbut maybe go with:
– FA mid tier pitcher and mid tier OF bat…let’s say Quintana and Haniger
– trade for Murphy or a Toronto CAt the end of the day i still feel like we do:
– one big FA
– one big trade
– extend a guy or two
– go with at least one position internally based on hope for rebound or breakoutFolks, I am afraid the success of the 2023 Cardinals will depend on the re-emergence of Flaherty, O’Neill, and Carlson. I don’t foresee any big signings or any big trades.
Folks, I am afraid Moz will eventually tell everyone that we tried and tried, gave it our best effort, spoke to alot of teams, etc, etc, but we just couldn’t seem to get any deals done.
I think starting next year that the emphasis on speed will be greater with the bases being larger and not having a shift. Being a second baseman will require more range and MLBTV pointed out that players like Nolan Gorman may not be a fit and I concur. I always thought that he profiled best as a DH or corner IF/OF. It should help players like Tommy Edman who steals bases and has range at both SS & 2B. Stolen bases will be a focus for more teams.
GS,
“Why would you give up someone like him (Hudson) for free when you could get something in return?”There is no shortage of below avg pitch to contact starters on the market, with a WHIP problem and limited K’s.
He’ll have to earn it, but I’d like to see Eddie hit his way back into that lead-off slot next season. He’s a formidable threat to come around and score when he reaches base and he very seldom gets CS.
I like Donovan leading off and Eddie second. Eddie at #2 can see all the pitches that Donovan gets and adjust. I always thought Eddie was a prototype 2-hole hitter. He will benefit from the new rules as well as any player.
There is no shortage of below avg pitch to contact starters on the market, with a WHIP problem and limited K’s.
Perhaps so but I would imagine there is a shortage of pitchers capable of giving you 150 innings for under $2M.
Rats – Don’t forget about Gorman. The Cards have a great group of young position players – O’Neill, Edman, Donovan, Carlson, Nootbaar, Gorman, Yepez, Walker, Winn, and Gomez.
It’ll be exciting to see which ones rise to the occasion and have impact going forward.GS, if Hudson were a FA, would you target him as an acquisition for 2023, at his estimated salary of 2.7mil?
GS, if Hudson were a FA, would you target him as an acquisition for 2023, at his estimated salary of 2.7mil?
Cot’s has him projected at 1.75M, which is not much for a number 4 or 5 starter. I would imagine there are several teams out there who would pay that for an innings eater, which is why I would think he would have a little trade value.
If StL can walk away from Wong for zero return why would they concern themselves with Hudsons trade value?
Wong is finishing a 3/25mil contract in 2023 that he signed after the FO cut him loose. Hudson doesn’t have anywhere near that value.
This is the exact same discussion the forum had over Wong that prompted the Jamie Garcia article. Everyone thought we’d accept his club option and then trade him. Didn’t happen.
I don’t consider O’Neill a young position player anymore. He will be 28 in June. I would love to trade him in a package if another team would give us a #1 type starting pitcher.
Next season will be O’Neill’s 6th year in the Big Leagues. That’s long enough for me to detect a pattern. Anyone paying attention can plainly see what the pattern indicates. I’d also say that it’s a reach to expect any chance of a top of the rotation pitcher for him unless he’s offered up with someone else who the Cardinals probably wouldn’t be willing to part ways with. It’s my guess he’ll be the LF’er on opening day unless he slips on a banana peel.
Instead of using nebulous terms like “ceiling”, I tend to look at how a player has done when they’re healthy and in the groove.
Hudson in 2019 before the pandemic and an arm issue –
16-7 with a 3.35 ERA in 32 starts.O’Neill in 2021 when he was healthy – 34 home runs, 80 RBI, and an OPS of .912 in 138 games.
You can say what you want about them, but that’s what they’re capable of, and they’re only 28 and 27 right now.
Career years can be dangerous when assessing talent. I’d add Flaherty to the Hudson and O’Neill list.
Not necessarily “career” years. Just years they were healthy.
Sure, let’s add Flaherty – 2021 at 25 years old –
9-2 with a 3.22 ERA in 15 starts. Ked 85 in 78 IP.A POBO in the NL Central Division told me several years ago that he thought Flaherty would win a Cy Young Award someday.
I posted this in the trade thread but I thought I would ask it here as well. Would the two teams trade Dakota Hudson for Danny Jensen?
There won’t be a “really big deal”
for a third baseman, shortstop, second baseman, first baseman, starting pitcher, or bullpen arm.
There may be a reasonably sizable deal for a LHH outfielder. There will be a big deal for a catcher, though. And all of the above is understandable.If StL can walk away from Wong for zero return why would they concern themselves with Hudsons trade value?
It is easier to walk away from a $12M obligation than a $2M obligation. They would have kept Wong if he only cost $2M.
Instead of using nebulous terms like “ceiling”, I tend to look at how a player has done when they’re healthy and in the groove.
Hudson in 2019 before the pandemic and an arm issue –
16-7 with a 3.35 ERA in 32 starts.O’Neill in 2021 when he was healthy – 34 home runs, 80 RBI, and an OPS of .912 in 138 games.
You can say what you want about them, but that’s what they’re capable of, and they’re only 28 and 27 right now.
Bcran, what you say is true but if you were the guy signing the checks you would also have to ask yourself how often is this player going to be healthy. Talent potential only matters if the player is on the field.
I don’t really worry about Hudson’s health. He is past his TJ surgery now. O’Neill’s health is a bigger concern to me.
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