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gs- It’s a heckuva lot easier for an infielder to learn the OF than vice versa. The Cards have started the process by moving Walker to OF.
Do they want to keep Gorman at 2B? Remains to be seen. They very well may want to keep Donovan there as an everyday player because of his high OBP. Winn? He has a couple of years to learn OF if they want him there. No big deal for him. He has all the tools.Oliver- Google “mlb leaders in WAR. You’ll see that Edman ranks 13th in overall WAR and third in defensive WAR.
gs- It’s a heckuva lot easier for an infielder to learn the OF than vice versa. The Cards have started the process by moving Walker to OF.
Do they want to keep Gorman at 2B? Remains to be seen. They very well may want to keep Donovan there as an everyday player because of his high OBP. Winn? He has a couple of years to learn OF if they want him there. No big deal for him. He has all the tools.I am not saying it would be impossible to make that work but it would require a lot of things going right. It just seems like wishful thinking for an organization that has always prided itself on defense.
The biggest question, in my humble view, and the most difficult to deal with, remains catcher. And frankly I don’t see anybody out there among those even remotely available who sets my heart racing or for whom I would be willing to give up more than a couple of hot dogs and a sack of BP balls. I fear we are destined to mediocrity on that front (Oh please prove me wrong Mo!)
CardFrance…I don’t think there’s any question concerning a catcher. They’ll go with Knizner and sign a Romine type to back him up.
CardFrance…Yessir. They’re not going to force any action until they give Knizner his opportunity and see if he pans out. If he doesn’t, then they’ll take a look at other options.
Don’t forget the trade route for a catcher. Some guys we don’t even know are available might be – if the right player(s) are offered in return.
I’ll be surprised if they go with Knizner as the clear no. 1. Knizner has already had 553 plate appearances, or roughly a full season, with a .579 career OPS. I guess it gets down to whether one thinks he can markedly improve with the bat.
BW…Yeah, that’s a season’s worth in 4 years of service. With Molina gone, I think he gets his chance to be the #1 catcher. Things could certainly change, but I feel Knizner’s the odds on favorite right now. Like I mentioned, it’s not in the nature of this regime to force the action on anything until it’s entirely clear action is necessary. If Andrew tanks, they’ll scope out other options.
But what they do as far as a catcher acquisition depends on the current thinking about Herrera. Do they want to unload valuable prospects and/or take on a multi year contract commitment, blocking Herrera’s path to the bigs? He’s only 22 with less than 300 PAs in AAA, so it seems unlikely the org’s catcher of the future master plan would be scrapped over 22 MLB PAs.
I believe the thinking by some might be backwards on Knizner. For a long time the Cards haven’t seemed to emphasize offense from their backstop, Yadi or backups. Although modest with the bat, Yadi overachieved against their expectations. So I think it’ll depend on how they view Knizner’s framing, handling pitchers, and overall defense.
It seems like I kept hearing most of the broadcasters (including opposing broadcasters) say Kiz does a fairly good job behind the plate during the season. However, his defensive stats look subpar. My own eye test was kind of mixed — he made the occasional nice play, but made more mistakes than you want.
1td has a good point about his time being so fragmented working under Yadi. Hard to really get going with the bat or glove that way. I guess it depends on how Mo views the risk assessment with other guys like Gorman, Carlson, and O’Neill as to how much risk he wants to take on by going with just Kiz & Herrera.
There aren’t many positions at which the Cardinals can make changes to improve offensively in 2022. Catcher is one of them. Can they afford to stand pat?
They are pretty much going to stand pat because the brain trust is banking on resurgent years from Jack Flaherty and Tyler O’Neill. If they get that they can once again win the NL Central. And, as we are currently seeing unfold right before our very eyes, the playoffs are a crap shoot.
In other words, with 3,000,000+ crossing the turnstiles they are going to keep their fingers crossed that good things happen without spending a boatload of $$$.
r/Esteemed Rat
Yes, they could afford to stand pat. Even if the FA’s walk, this is still a very strong position player group.
HOU was 28th this past season at catcher (StL 27th), but HOU can also pitch extremely well.
It would be nice to get a bump at catcher, but when your entire pitching staff ranks 22nd (brWAR) there are multiple needs that could be addressed.
As non-pitchers StL ranked first (brWAR).
Knizner –
AAA – 341 PAs/.283/.362/.453/.815
AA – 515 PAs/.318/.368/.445/.813He hit all the way through the upper minors. Maybe they’re convinced that he will hit better when he’s not playing in Yadi’s shadow.
MLB Trade Rumors doing team specific chats. done Pirates and Cubs so far.
From chat earlier today
Yeah we’re divvying them up based on which team’s offseason outlooks we’re responsible for. I’ll make up Cincinnati, Colorado and Arizona at some point and do the others in conjunction with the rest of the outlooks as they drop
Cardinals in the next day or two probablyIMO Knizner got his big chance in 2022 and didn’t capitalize on it. Yadi wasn’t even on the field half the season. Blocking Knizner won’t be the consideration if they upgrade or not. It will come down to how they project Herrera. If they don’t want to go big with Contreras or Murphy there are other options. Danny Jansen of Toronto would be a good trade option or perhaps a free agent like Tucker Barnhart as a stopgap.
Considering how sluggish our offense can be at times we don’t need automatic outs in the lineup and that is pretty much what catcher was in 2022.
No, Knizner didn’t capitalize. He looks more like a backup than a starter to me, however I still won’t say he’s been given a very good chance to show what he can do. Yadi missed a lot of action in 2022, yet still had more at bats than Knizner.
I dunno…I think they go with Knizner and Herrera
When they called up Herrera I thought they kind of showed their hand… and not that Knizner is the future but Ivan is..
Knizner wasnt really auditioning to be the starting catcher…he was auditioning to show he is the backup…and if he showed more then so be it…he didnt
Knizner is backup catcher…and he has played like one, there is probably ab it more from him with true starting time…but probably not much…
Ivan…well he is almost ready…another offseason of development and go into Spring Training with him getting a lot of time which is easy for ST…
Id imagine we start the year with Knizner and a veteran journeyman catcher backing him up (let’s just say Godoy for fun) while Ivan starts at AAA….a month or two in as long as Ivan is playing well…and as long as Knizner ISNT….they make the switch….maybe after All Star Game…but we will see
They got that Allen kid from Oakland who i assume will be the AAA catcher once Ivan is up for good.
If they trade for or sign a catcher then they are admitting their plan for post Yadi was failure…and blocks Ivan from any chance…and Ivan hasnt gotten a shot yet…no way they throw away a top prospect without giving him a chance.
and he’d have lessened value in a trade if we put him out there too, if we sign Contreras or trade for Murphy…then it signals Ivan is available and NOT good enough…thus cratering his value…. if you try to move him FIRST…then you lose some of his value as WHY is the first question the other GM would ask…and then as result you drive UP the price in a trade or FA dollar amount seeing as you have no leverage because you traded it away…thus you cant walk away….and Knizner isn’t gonna cut it
a better bat is needed…but the spot is the outfield, preferably one who can play CF
Our team will not falter because we get no offense from the catcher spot, the key is that those catchers can call good games and at least control the running game enough to not be taken advantage of….the offense will fail because ONeill, Carlson, Gorman don’t rebound….and that Edman, Donny, Noot, Nolan and Goldy dont keep it up
A solid outfield bat
One Starter
Waino returnC-Knizner, vetFA
1-Goldy, Yepez
2-Gorman, Donny, Edman
3-Arenado, Donny, Yepez, Edman
SS-Edman, DeJong
LF-ONeill, FA-OF, Noot, Donny, Yepez
CF-Carlson, FA-OF, Noot
RF-FA-OF, Carlson, Noot, Donny, Yepez
DH-Yepez, Donny, NootI’d love to be done with DeJong in dump deal, then bring in Juan Mateo on a 2yr deal, to backup or start at SS/CF/2b and steal bases
Haniger
Quint
Waino
Mateo (if DeJong can be moved)I don’t place a lot of confidence in what someone who talks out of both sides of their mouth says, but this is a direct quote from John Mozeliak published on Wed. by a local StL. media outlet concerning Paul DeJong. “I would say that as of right now, there’s a strong probability that he is back with us.” Well, after he suffered through watching the Cardinals performance in the ’22 post-season, it looks like Johnny’s determined to bolster the offense in ’23.
Back with us can mean alot of things. I’d be okay with him being the backup SS and occasional pinch-hitter against lefties. Anything more than that and I’d have to wonder if some people have a brain.
Eddie GG finalist utility (along with Donovan) and at second base also. Goldy and Arenado also finalists.
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