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For those who subscribe to The Athletic, from the AFL, Keith Law raves over Masyn Winn. If a player with that much promise can deliver, other players (even certain posters’ favorites) should move to make room for him, not the other way around…
https://theathletic.com/3703139/2022/10/18/mlb-prospects-arizona-fall-league/
In April, Keith Law predicted the Brewers and cubs would finish ahead of the Cards this year and the Cards would have a losing record.
Before the season, lots of people/organizations made bad predictions about the 2022 Cardinals, which has nothing to do with this discussion.
If folks want to avoid the subject and focus on Law instead of the fact that Winn is a very exciting shortstop, have at it. Just like the above, a lot of observers other than Law see great potential in Winn. Attacking the messenger doesn’t change the message…
P.S. Gomez could work his way into the very busy corner OF competition, but he isn’t a center fielder other than in a pinch. The Cardinals seem to like Gomez most in RF. For those who subscribe, he was announced as our Player of the Year this morning.
Keith Law and everyone else should know better than to make predictions. Especially about the future. Even the great Nolan Ryan learned his lesson the hard way. “We’ll get it done in 6.”
BW, also, why are the posters’ opinions on here any better than Law’s? I don’t think anyone here has been paid to judge major league baseball talent. Law has made a living for a long time on “reading the tea leaves” on clubs’ plans.
Everything points to the Cardinals playing Winn at SS in the majors as soon as he is ready. I don’t see anyone except Perez who could put any dent in those plans. However, he hasn’t shown enough to be the regular SS in St. Louis.
The only thing wrong with the Winn at SS projection is that Edman may have something to say about it. Especially with
his 2022 WAR and possible GG. Winn would make a natural CFer with his speed and arm. He would make up for lack of range by the corners if they’re slower power hitters like Yepez and Gomez. Of if Burlson earns a starting OF corner spot.bcc is correct IMO. No one is challenging Winn’s ability. Edman should be the Cardinal’s SS for many years to come and Winn should be groomed to be the CF’er. Gorman and Walker were moved…why not Winn? He definitely fits the profile of a CF’er…just like Walker and Gorman fit the profile of a corner OF’er. I don’t like Law because he doesn’t like college baseball and I do.
As suspected, this isn’t about Winn, it is about protecting Edman. But fan speculation doesn’t move players.
As everyone already knows, offense-first players Gorman and Walker were moved because of Arenado. That is an entirely different situation in every way.
Edman has already proven his ability at multiple positions and if that is his future, the Cardinals may be a better team as a result. Or he could move back to second, or maybe he is the one to move to CF???
It is not a different situation in any way. Walker and Gorman were moved because of Arenado. Winn should be moved because of Edman. Winn profiles as a CF’er IMO just like Gorman and Walker profile as corner outfielders IMO. The Cardinals are a better team with Tommy Edman at SS. Mine is not speculation but rather an observer and a lifelong baseball person as a player, coach and spectator of baseball. I am 73 years old.
Edman isn’t going to be top 3 in the Gold Glove shortstop order this year…
Edman’s value as a utility player will come in handy when Winn is ready, for sure. Winn has a great ceiling with the glove and I think we’ll see that quickly upon callup.
At the same time, Gorman and, to a lesser degree, Donovan have the upside with the bat to fill the 2B role. It would be foolish to move any of them down the defensive spectrum until you knew you had to.
BW, I guess I’m one of the “folks.” What does Keith Law have to do with this discussion? You brought him into it as someone’s opinion that should be listened to. I showed maybe he shouldn’t be. As for as prospects, I wish I had a dollar for everyone he has whiffed on one. For that matter, most do whiff. It’s a hard game to get right. Also, you were very critical of Pecota’s projections on the Cards 2022 season, yet they were much closer than Law. Why try to make apologies for Law now? That said, I hope he’s right about Winn.
Also, I didn’t see any attacking that I did. Just stating facts. Although this:
(even certain posters’ favorites)
is an obvious and unnecessary passive aggression to a certain poster for anyone who has read the board a few times.
My question is will MLB add a 4th WC and have a WC tournament in ’23? They could have two 3 game WC series in each league with the winners advancing. Then a final WC 5 game series in each league. The two winning WC teams in each league would then advance to play the divison winner with the best record in a 7 game series. The two other division winners would face off in a 7 game series to decide who advances to the respective LCS in each league. Then, the winners of the 7 game LCS advance to an epic and well deserved best of 9 game WS. Not only will MLB realize a tremendous increase in profits, but the division winners will have a couple of weeks to play golf, engage in some fanatasy football, take their lovely wives and families on a well deserved vacation, etc. Additionally, baseball fans won’t be subjected to having to resort to NFL football to receive their sports action fix so soon. I think it’s a good idea.
Here’s a can’t miss prospect from the past…Anyone remember 2B’man Geronimo Pena? Yeah, me too. Incidentally, he was born on the exact same day as was Brian Jordan, but Pena never manned up at the safety position in the NFL…
Predicting MLB standings is difficult. Predicting prospect progression is difficult. The predictions that most here make are wrong as well.
I presume that the reason for bringing Law into the conversation is that he’s witnessed Winn with his own eyes and had a favorable impression. Whether he made great picks for this MLB season is irrelevant to this particular discussion. We do know that Law tilts toward toolsy, athletic players in his rankings. The tale of the tape on that is something you’d have to look at on a wider ranging level.
Bottom line…at least one successful (by followers) prospect rater really likes Winn. The Cards seem to really like Winn. It’s not impossible that Edman moves for Winn, and that shouldn’t be an offensive statement for reasonable observers.
Whether he made great picks for this MLB season is irrelevant to this particular discussion.
Okay, do you care for me to list all the numerous prospects he’s whiffed on over the years? It’s numerous. Is that relevant? What’s irrelevant is he’s brought into the discussion to begin as if that validates someone’s view over another’s
Edman isn’t going to be top 3 in the Gold Glove shortstop order this year…
Please name the three you have ahead of him — it is an interesting topic to me. It is a stretch for me to come up with two, let alone three. But it depends on how voters view Edman since his time was spread almost evenly between two positions. From what I understand, each team’s 7 voters receive a list of players eligible for each position with their SDI ratings, which is weight 25% of the award. Some say this has influenced voters to go along with those ratings, which if so, in reality gives the SDI rating a much higher weight than 25%. I don’t think Edman is going to be outside the top 3 for that, or top 2 for that matter. I guess he will be #1 or #2.
What makes this interesting is the criteria for the utility gold glove haven’t been published. At least not that I have seen and I looked a week or so ago. The question I have is could someone now theoretically win two gold gloves in the same year, say 2B and Utility. Prior to this year, you could only win at the position for which you played the most innings. That would be shortstop for Edman. However, if he “qualifies” for the utility gold glove based on whatever criteria, then would that make him not eligible for gold glove at SS? If not, then it would be possible for a guy to win two gold gloves.
The possibility that Edman might win a gold glove at SS or the Cards might keep him at SS and Winn emerges at another position should not offend reasonable observers.
“Edman isn’t going to be top 3 in the Gold Glove shortstop order this year”.
“Edman’s value as a utility player will come in handy when Winn is ready, for sure. Winn has a great ceiling with the glove and I think we’ll see that quickly upon call-up”
Your opinion, not mine.
Winn’s ceiling is not greater than Eddie’s.
The only reason that Edman won’t win the GG at SS this year is that he played at 2B for the first half of the year. I think MLB created a GG for Utility players(multi-positional players) and Eddie should win it.Okay, do you care for me to list all the numerous prospects he’s whiffed on over the years? It’s numerous. Is that relevant?
Sure, that has some relevance. Is Law more or less accurate than other prospect services?
Given that, less or more credence may be given to his opinion, but it doesn’t really change the discussion at hand in a negative (anti-Winn) direction.
What’s irrelevant is he’s brought into the discussion to begin as if that validates someone’s view over another’s
There’s not one person in this discussion who has seen Masyn Winn play more recently than Keith Law. We’ve been discussing Winn most of this recent discussion. It seems relevant to me.
Eddie’s ceiling has been reached. and it is ok not like Eddie as much as others do. To each his own.
He has a top defensive WAR in baseball. That is the MLB ceiling and you can’t be any better than that. If you do not like Eddie’s defensive production then you are just wrong.
Sure, that has some relevance. Is Law more or less accurate than other prospect services?
Comparing Law to any other service is also irrelevant to say that because “this guy” said it, I must have a better opinion than yours. It’s funny how people like to play that game. They all miss way more than they get right. How many 5th round draftees make it? 2nd round? 1st round?
So the pro tip is to take the George Constanza route — do the opposite. Always bet against what they say if it’s even money, and you’re sure to come out ahead.
So again, who are the three you have ahead of Edman? Or did that just seem right to say at the time?
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