Outfield Dilemma …

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  • #114118
    Avatargscottar
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    I agree the time frame and the definition of “winning” matters. If we are talking about W-L% since the DeWitt’s took over I would imagine the Cardinals, Yankees, and Dodgers would all be in the top 5, same with since 2000, and same with this past decade. If we are talking about WS titles in those time frames then that changes things. Teams like the Giants and Red Sox would accompany the Cardinals.

    #114132
    Avatar1982 willie
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    well the issue isn’t a perennial winner. the cardinals have been that outside of a few years there. but to me this team overachieved this year based on its offensive output. hard to see status quo getting a better result, more likely worse. we were clearly outclassed in the nlcs doesn’t matter about previous history. you need to have guys that have proven to be consistent hitters, we don’t have that right now. this ownership just seems to be willing to just try to be good enough just so they can keep the turnstyles turning. yea they have some money wrapped up in some guys but that’s their fault. carpenter shouldn’t have gotten his deal based on the year before. fowler well that’s up to opinion. gody hadn’t done anything for the cards to get his money and right now id say he was way overpaid. but at least in goldys case, I think its possible he could have a couple of great years left. the others, not so much. there are plenty of guys who can do what carp and fowler give us and they would be a lot cheaper, are actually on the team right now. so instead of spending thirty million or so on two players you can replace with 1 million or less, kid rather take that chance and spend that thirty million or so to one really good proven younger player. that’s what our ownership wont do, go for it. they just want to sit back and count the cash as it flows through the ballpark while every once in a while saying some stupid remark about how the players should play better or they just try to add in another has been. an dsay hey we tried something.

    #114148
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    <we were clearly outclassed in the nlcs doesn’t matter about previous history. >

    We were beaten badly in the NLCS but I only saw one point proved there. Hot teams at the end of a season tend to stay hot. The Nationals were definitely a hot team but the Cards had taken them 5 of 7 during the season and beat both Sherzer and Stasburg. But the Cards had one ‘hot’ game with the Braves and that proved enough to advance them but the Nats were out of their minds hot. To take the Dodgers, Cards and Astros proved to me that at the end of the season they were the best team in baseball. Shades of 2011 huh?

    #114150
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    Hot teams in the playoffs happen a lot. The Nationals were a good team in 2019 but a great team in the playoffs when they got hot.

    #114169
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    More of the same…

    #114194
    Avatar1982 willie
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    actually the nationals were a great team during the season if you take out their slow start, probably would have won their division. so in my eyes they didn’t suddenly get hot. I don’t know why people want to lean on excuses like that team was hot. bottom line in my eyes they have a better every day lineup. heck you could add 2 of our every day players together and they wouldn’t equal rendon. their starting pitching was at the least equal to ours but I feel it was slightly better. only place we were better was the bullpen but they didn’t pitch that well in the playoffs.

    #114195
    Avatar1982 willie
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    I guess the cardinals just never learn any lessons. trying to give ozuna a multiyear contract. the fun never ends.

    #114200
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Well, if you take out the middle, the Cards were a great team, too. In the totality, the Nats won just two more games during the six months, which is pretty much a dead heat.

    On Ozuna, do you really think the Cards are going to outbid seven other teams? If so, why? If not, why fret about what isn’t going to happen?

    #114221
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
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    Ozuna is as good as gone folks, can they get Gallen back though?

    #114222
    AvatarNigel T
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    Gallen would still be in Memphis and unproven if he were still with us. He would have virtually no trade value, too.

    #114224
    Avatarmspaid
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    The Nationals won the games that counted. The fact that they only won two more than the Cardinals is superfluous. The Cardinals should have made the moves in the off-season and at the deadline that put them in a position to win the games that counted but Mo said they had enough…clearly they did not. It’s hard to improve your team by doing nothing.

    #114401
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    In news that is not news, Marcell Ozuna officially declined the Cardinals’ qualifying offer.

    #114424
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Get that sweet, delicious sandwich pick, Cards!!

    #114425
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    It seems to me that the Cards might be shopping in the bargain bin for a spare OF this winter. Dickerson or Calhoun might be a bridge to Dylan Carlson on a one year deal. These guys hit right handed pitching hard, which is an obvious need, and probably will cost less than $10M on a one year deal. I’m not sure I’m all that thrilled with the idea, but if we got a lefty version of Jmart with a little better defense from one of these guys I could probably live with it. I do think that some clearing will need to be done by trade this winter, perhaps with O’Neill, Bader or Arozarena as a piece moved for a starter.

    #114427
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Despite my prediction that Ozuna would take the QO, I am happy he did not and I now hope the Cards do not dicker with him for a new contract. It frees up the cleanup hitter position that he had nailed down for the entire season and, at times, was less than deserving. It may also have saved ONeil from being traded (which I think is still possible). But it clears the way for some cash saving to be put to better use. I’ll be happy to let Mo and company decide where.

    #114454
    Avatargscottar
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    It seems to me that the Cards might be shopping in the bargain bin for a spare OF this winter. Dickerson or Calhoun might be a bridge to Dylan Carlson on a one year deal. These guys hit right handed pitching hard, which is an obvious need, and probably will cost less than $10M on a one year deal. I’m not sure I’m all that thrilled with the idea, but if we got a lefty version of Jmart with a little better defense from one of these guys I could probably live with it. I do think that some clearing will need to be done by trade this winter, perhaps with O’Neill, Bader or Arozarena as a piece moved for a starter.

    Yes, I think a FA like Dickerson, Calhoun, or Gordon would be very valuable for this team or even a trade for someone like Peralta. That way Carlson could start in Memphis and not be rushed.

    #114461
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    #114463
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I was on the Max Kepler trade bandwagon last year, and sure enough, he broke out. I like Rosario but I do think that at this point I’d rather see a one year solution so we can sort out the O’Neill/Thomas/Arozarena/Bader situation in CF or maybe RF this year and then give Carlson a starting position by 2021 to see what he can do.

    #114467
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    Yeah, I think one of the one year guys makes the most sense.

    #114468
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    Maybe Carlson is ready in 2020…I think the FO is not sure how quickly he can be an everyday starter at the MLB level. Spring Training may give them a better idea.

    #114469
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Maybe Carlson is ready in 2020…I think the FO is not sure how quickly he can be an everyday starter at the MLB level. Spring Training may give them a better idea.

    Of course. Depth is not usually a bad thing but there should be some concern about wasting some of the talent we have on hand by depending on the veteran pickup.

    Also, with the potential to see changes in service time rules with the new CBA coming up, one wonders if teams will be even more cautious with calling up top prospects if the risk is that they’ll only get 5 full seasons out of them (or 5 seasons, period).

    #114470
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Teams that are contending will not stop making moves because they are worried about what may or may not happen two years in the future.

    If you listen to Mo’s most recent talk with DannyMac, it sounds like they are not expecting Carlson to be with the team on Opening Day. And I am fine with that, as well as with the idea of bringing in a veteran on a one-year deal for OF depth.

    Look at who remains and you’ll see that Fowler is the only proven starting MLB outfielder on the roster. Maybe completely going with the kids would be fine for a rebuilding team, but riskier for a contender.

    #114471
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Teams that are contending will not stop making moves because they are worried about what may or may not happen two years in the future.

    True. What I meant was that teams might be more “cautious” both ways in situations that could appear to be service time manipulation, which one would assume would be a high priority for the players negotiating the next CBA. So you might see teams pushing guys a bit faster or slower to avoid the fallout from what may come of the Bryant case and the next CBA. I’m not sure how it will all play out but it will be interesting to see, for me.

    #114473
    Avatarthejager
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    I like Haniger from SEA as a target. some control, still in prime, 5 tool, good defense, I have read that he may be available. HE might not be flashy, but he could be a very strong.

    #114481
    Avatarmudville
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    There’s talk about the players wanting changes to service time. Has anybody heard what the owners want in exchange for agreeing to changes to service time?

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