Outfield Dilemma …

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  • #113039
    Euro Dandy
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    And for those out there that think Fowler had a bounce back year, what did he hit, around .239???

    There you go again, Rat, using those old fashioned stats. 😉

    He did hit .238 compared to .180 the previous year. That’s an impressive 32% increase, so it could be called a bounce back. In the stock market, I think they’d call it a dead cat bounce.

    This reminds me of when Bob Uecker was so good as a frequent guest on the Johnny Carson Show. He’d always tell Johnny that he never wanted more than a .200 average, 1 HR, and 4 or 5 RBIs in a season, because otherwise, they’d expect you to do it every year.

    #113085
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    14NyquisT
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    And for those out there that think Fowler had a bounce back year, what did he hit, around .239???

    Face it Fowler is a below average player offensively and defensively. His lack of hustle in the OF is noticeable and he has taken up a spot in the lineup that belongs to an outfielder that will show some enthusiasm. He has already blocked someone on the list of potential prospects that IMO would be of more value. Playing him just because of his rotten contract (for the Cards) is counter-productive and shows little prudence. The team is paying the price for the FO overpaying him for too many years.

    #113089
    stlcard25
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    Face it Fowler is a below average player offensively and defensively. His lack of hustle in the OF is noticeable and he has taken up a spot in the lineup that belongs to an outfielder that will show some enthusiasm. He has already blocked someone on the list of potential prospects that IMO would be of more value. Playing him just because of his rotten contract (for the Cards) is counter-productive and shows little prudence. The team is paying the price for the FO overpaying him for too many years.

    Would the Cards have made it past the NLCS without Fowler?

    I’ll offer a few names to think about with regards to the idea that the Cards must play a guy just because of his contract…Brett Cecil, Luke Gregerson, and Greg Holland.

    #113092
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    14NyquisT
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    And add Carpenter to that list.

    The Cards would have been a better team with Fowler on the bench. And he looked terrible in the NLCS with the rest of them.

    Sorry Euro that 32% increase over .159 is a joke. I’d rather see JMartinez in RF.

    #113094
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    Cardinals27
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    What a finish to Fowler’s year. He was 9 for his last 80 something. At the very least, I would like to see him on the bench next year.

    #113096
    stlcard25
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    And add Carpenter to that list.

    The Cards would have been a better team with Fowler on the bench. And he looked terrible in the NLCS with the rest of them.

    Or maybe Carpenter has been the team’s best hitter for the better part of 7 seasons and deserves a shot to get the bat going? Like I’ve outlined before, salary follows production and Carpenter has produced every year but one. Even then he was pretty solid after coming back from his injury/AAA stint.

    Better but let’s not pretend that he was the clear reason this team struggled late. They still made the NLCS and would have done no better with a prospect playing RF. The whining about the FO just comes off as nitpicking. Can you find a team without any wasted money on the payroll?

    #113101
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    Sorry Euro that 32% increase over .159 is a joke.

    Ny, I get it. If you take a closer look, my whole post was just being sarcastic. It’s so easy to contrive a stat. I find it funny when people do it and actually think they’re making a point. You see it a lot.

    #113102
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    Cardinals27
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    I just want the player who is playing the best starting. No starting spots should be given, they should be earned in Spring Training.

    #113105
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    gscottar
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    Can you find a team without any wasted money on the payroll?

    Minnesota Twins

    #113106
    stlcard25
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    I just want the player who is playing the best starting. No starting spots should be given, they should be earned in Spring Training.

    So if Paul Goldschmidt hits .280 with an .800 OPS in Spring Training, but Rangel Ravelo hits .300 with a 1.000 OPS, we should start Ravelo? Or is this “playing best+” adjusted for other factors? 😉

    #113107
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    If that happens Ravelo will be starting in LF.

    #113108
    stlcard25
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    Minnesota Twins

    Fair point. Are the Twins the model to follow now? They got incredible production from fairly substandard talent. Of course, their win totals have been all over the map lately…59, 85, 77, 101.

    #113110
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    14NyquisT
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    GC…Actually that’s not a bad thought and should be considered. He fits the profile and has versatility.

    #113112
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    gscottar
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    Fair point. Are the Twins the model to follow now? They got incredible production from fairly substandard talent. Of course, their win totals have been all over the map lately…59, 85, 77, 101.

    I don’t know if they are the model for everyone but them, Tampa, and Oakland know how to get bang for the buck. Three very smart front offices.

    #113113
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    They play in a division with Detroit, KC & Chicago…lots of easy wins.

    #113116
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    gscottar
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    They play in a division with Detroit, KC & Chicago…lots of easy wins.

    Yes but they operate with a payroll as small as those other teams yet they win more.

    #113119
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    Cardinals27
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    STL25, I was talking more about young prospects versus veterans, but in that scenario that is pretty close, I would have Goldschmidt at first due to past history, his stellar defense, and the fact he wasn’t struggling. If Ravelo was hitting that well, I’d find a spot for him in the outfield, and spelling Goldschmidt occasionally. To me Ravelo makes the team over JMart.

    If Fowler or Carpenter have a good Spring Training, I’d give them the edge, but if they have a poor ST, their starts would be fewer. I just hope Schildt doesn’t get locked into starting them no matter how they do.

    #113120
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    Somebody has to…they won over a 100 games and if they were any other division that wouldn’t have happened.

    #113123
    stlcard25
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    C27, I agree with you. I think Ravelo or Jmart goes this offseason and I suspect it’s Jmart.

    I also agree on Fowler (especially) and Carp. They will need to play well to keep starting.

    #113124
    stlcard25
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    If that happens Ravelo will be starting in LF.

    Over Tommy Edman??

    #113126
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    forsch31
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    Edman is not a sub

    No. He is a super-sub.

    #113133
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    Bw52
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    Never said Arozarena was doomed or a lousy player.I said I don`t feel he is the solution.IMO Arozarena can be part of the 4/5 guys in the OF mix.The speed is nice to have.As for Carlson hitting under .300 in the minors remember Carlson has always been younger than the guys he played against.As for the
    Edman hit .283 in the minors this and he did okay in the majors.Why cant Arozarena?" Nonsense .Just because TE had some success doesnt mean RA will have3 success.Thats a really silly assumption.I remain skeptical of a guy who has a 50-70 point jump in BA in one season.And for those who want to say its only his his 3rd year I say what do you think he did at home…… he has been playing for 6 years (Cuban national league 2 years,4years Mexican league ,minors).Last season pulled him up to a .280`s career minor league hitter.Nothing wrong with that.Good speed ,defense decent contact…he can be a part of the mix.

    #113136
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    Edman is a multi-positional starter.

    #113137
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    forsch31
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    Bw51, so you are saying the glass is half empty. Also, Edman had a 52 point jump in his batting average at Springfield from 2017 to 2018, so we should be skeptical of his jump? I guess we should also be doubting Carlson. After all, he hit 48 points higher this year than his previous career minor league average. If you want to find a reason to doubt a player, there are things to look at with any minor leaguer or rookie.

    Arozarena is originally from Cuba. How many of the players from Cuba come to the United States and make it to the majors in 3 years? He may have been playing there but it doesn’t mean he was completely developed and ready for the majors when he signed. I thought someone made a comment that RA had worked on his swing since getting to the U.S.

    #113138
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    forsch31
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    Starting at many different positions makes you a super-sub or utility player, not a starter. He has no positional home to be a starter.

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