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I don’t see what the dilemma is. Edman will play left. Martinez and Fowler will split right and Bader and Fowler will spit center. The outfield for 2020.
Hopefully, Fowler and Martinez aren’t involved. Edman, Bader, Thomas, Arozarena, O’Neill, and Carlson should be.
Spring training will tell it all. As for right now I’d like to see Carlson-Thomas-Edman as our OF with Arozarena and JMartinez as backups. If the organization feels they want to go with another vet I like thejager’s pick of Haniger or gscottar’s Calhoun.
Bader would have to show a big improvement in cutting down on his K rate, same with O’Neill. Thomas could turn out to be the 2020 version of Edman. ST will determine if Carlson is ready. I love the excitement Arozarena brings and JMartinez is still a guy that pitchers will fear.
Please no more Fowler. I hate thinking that the FO continues to force Shildt to play him when we have better talent available. He remains an albatross and IMO doesn’t deserve a spot on the 2020 roster. The FO has to admit they made a huge mistake bringing him here and then expecting him to match his ’16 season with the Cubs. Did I already say this at some point?
the continued dismissal of O
Neill is crazy.When he has gotten a real chance he has produced okay numbers.He is not a guy who does well in a bench role.Arozarena is closer to the .270-280 hitter he was before last year when offense exploded in the minors.Thomas is a solid OF and should be in the mix.I agree with Nyquis..get Fowler the hell out of dodge..as for JMartinez….I wouldnt miss him ….
A OF mix with O`Neill,Bader,Arozarena,Thomas with Edman at times and Carlson coming up sometime in 2020 is not a bad OF..Better defense,better speed,more athletic….why not?Might be less Homeruns but maybe more Doubles…..Bw52, you realize that a .270-.280 average is pretty good in today’s game, right? Especially if you are able to draw walks at a decent rate, as Arozarena has been (around 10% in his career). He doesn’t strike out a ton, has good speed and good defense. I think O’Neill still has the higher ceiling but I don’t see a reason to keep bringing up an argument that isn’t even that compelling as you make it.
The Cardinals have tried to give O’Neill a chance but he can’t stay healthy. He is the Alex Reyes of the OF.
The Front Office knows they made a big mistake in signing Fowler but they can’t say so publicly.
They also know that no other team wants him.
On Opening day 2020 the lineup will look like thisCF Fowler
2B Wong
1B Goldschmidt
RF Martinez
C Molina
LF Edman
3B Carpenter
SS DeJong
P FlahertyGet used to this and it will reduce your angst when few or no significant moves are made.
The next two years will be something called…playing out the string.
ESPN did a piece on all MLB teams and this is what was said regarding the 2020 Cardinals.
The Cardinals ranked 11th in OPS and 10th in runs scored in the National League in 2019 despite trading for Paul Goldschmidt last offseason. After a good power year in 2018, St. Louis reverted to some of its old ways: They led the league in stolen bases but had the fewest home runs of any playoff team.
With Marcell Ozuna expected to reject St. Louis’ qualifying offer to become a free agent, the Cardinals can embark on increasing their production at third base and in the outfield. One place they’re bound to get it is with a full season from the dynamic Tommy Edman. His .850 OPS in 92 games led the team as his play teased of what he could become: a four-plus-tool player who can wreak havoc on the opposition. Third base is more murky. Matt Carpenter will turn 34 later this month and transitioning to a super-utility role could be best for the team while it pursues a slugging third baseman. Josh Donaldson, anyone? — Jesse Rogers
In the slow-moving early days of free agency, we get this article praising an agent for doing his job. The player also gets praised, I guess because he is wisely going along with using stats to make his case. The implication is that some free agents reject this kind of sales approach, which I highly doubt. (Or if there are ones that do, they are really stupid.)
A look at some of the analytically-driven data Marcell Ozuna is using to promote his free agency. It's always good to see when players embrace rather than reject this information. https://t.co/2CQr0BVjVm #Cardinals #Marlins
— Ken Davidoff (@KenDavidoff) November 19, 2019
Jesse Rogers
Remember that Jesse Rogers is the Cubs
homerbeat writer for ESPN so if it doesn’t involve Chicago, he rarely pays attention.Edman would bat 3rd in the lineup above. Tommy Edman is very reminiscent of a modern day Tommy Herr as far as I am concerned.
Fowler
Wong
Edman
Goldschmidt
Martinez
Molina
DeJong
CarpenterI hope the line-up looks like this:
Edman RF
Wong 2B
Goldschmidt 1B
Dejong SS
Carlson LF
Molina C
Carpenter 3B
Arozarena CFI was sort of assuming it was a given that Martinez would be in the AL or on a rebuilding NL club next year…. is the consensus that with the 26th spot that he will be that PH every game?
I’d love to see more out of Arozarena, and he should/will be in the mix, but based on the total 5 tool package ideology, I see Lane Thomas as the best CF option batting 6 or 7 for the Cards to start the year and if he can keep his OBP above the .350 line then possibly in the 1 or 2 spot.
EDIT: Just re-looked at 2019 stats, if he can keep the OBP over .330 then Thomas should be in the 1 or 2 spot.
This might make some cry/cringe a bit…. but how many Cards with more than 100 AB’s had an OBP >.350 in 2019? Answer: 1 (Wong) That’s really really bad folks.
GameCard
I hope the line-up looks like this:
Edman RF
Wong 2B
Goldschmidt 1B
Dejong SS
Carlson LF
Molina C
Carpenter 3B
Arozarena CFYou want DeJong in the cleanup spot?????
Not in a million years. Unless he turns it around big time.
DeJong in the 4th spot? I haven’t head anything that funny in months. The thing is, however, it would be typical of the Cardinals to acquire no one for the middle of the lineup and declare DeJong the cleanup guy. You might get your way, GaneCard.
“You want DeJong in the cleanup spot?????
Not in a million years. Unless he turns it around big time.”“DeJong in the 4th spot? I haven’t head anything that funny in months.”
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Hmmm, let’s think about cleanup hitter. Derrick Goold and many others have suggested that it will be very difficult for the Cards to replace Marcell Ozuna at cleanup hitter.
Marcell Ozuna as a Cardinal: .451 slugging percentage and a 106 OPS+.
Paul DeJong for his MLB career: .467 slugging, and a 106 OPS+.Now, lemme be clear. I’m not advocating for DeJong as cleanup hitter. But rather I’m trying to throw cold water on the nonsense that “Ozuna’s bat will be tough to replace.”
But neither do I mean to dismiss the idea of DeJong at cleanup. If he hits .260 with 30-35 homers, that’d be fine. And it wouldn’t surprise me much if he did just that.
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But this is an outfielder thread, so let me suggest something about the outfield that is both radical and boringly obvious.
Harrison Bader had a horrible year at the plate in 2019 and was STILL an above average ballplayer, thanks largely to his wondrous range in the outfield. We all know that great defense has a lot of value, especially up-the-middle defense. And Bader is indeed a great defender, which made him above average overall. He was above average whether we look at Baseball-Reference values, or Fangraphs. Even with the ugly bat.
And for his (admittedly brief) career thus far, he has been worth an excellent 3.6 WAR per 600 plate appearances according to Fangraphs. And B-Ref likes him even more than that, at 3.8 WAR per 600.
Therefore, based on both last year and his career, Harry Bader should be the starting centerfielder next season, period. If he maintains his superlative glovework and hits in 2020 as projected by the B-Ref Marcel forecasting system (.240 with 15 homers), he’ll be a 4-4.5 WAR player. And if he only hits like he did in 2019, he’s still worth keeping in the starting lineup. Just bat him near the bottom, and pinch hit late when tied or trailing.
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