Outfield Dilemma …

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  • #123231
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    I am rooting for Williams. I love me some underdog!

    #123232
    Avatarbccran
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    O’Neill – 5′ 11″ / 210 lbs.
    Bader – 6′ 0″ / 195 lbs.
    Thomas – 6′ 1″ / 210 lbs.
    Williams – 6′ 2″ / 215 lbs.
    Carlson – 6′ 3″ / 195 lbs.

    #123234
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Perhaps that’s why I pull so much for Tyler. I’ve met him a few times and he’s a real well mannered, nice kid.

    I agree on that point sheepdawg. When you meet and talk to a player it really helps you make up your mind on what type of person he is. I like Tyler but he is now one of those players who, when they come up to bat, I don’t get a good feeling. When he delivers I am surprised. That puts him in a class with Carpenter and Bader last season.

    Today I will get spring training report on the Toronto Blue Jays from their #1 fan who is visiting from Canada -my daughter. But she will be treated to a week of watching Cards games….lol.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by AvatarMinuteman3.
    #123307
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    O’Neill will get every opportunity to become the regular LF. Hopefully he can add some power that the others don’t have to the middle of the lineup. Can you imagine a ROY season from him??? Just dreamin’. ’cause that would mean Carlson goes to RF to start.

    #123325
    Avatar1982 willie
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    I think oneil and Thomas will get every chance to make this team and play a lot. I would be very surprised if Carlson makes this team no matter how good he plays this spring. if everybody else is terrible but I don’t see that happening early anyway. also carpenter has put on some bulk, if he comes back strong, what do we do with edman. does edman suffer a sophomore slump. if he hits well in spring what do we do then. how about bader. what if he hits just as well as these other guys with his strong defense. its fairly easy call if he hits like last season but not so if he hits anywhere close to average. lots of decisions. usually they play themselves out so we will see plus the old injury bug has a lot to say sometimes.

    #123371
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    On KMOX this AM, Mo was asked about Carlson.

    As said in the off season, they are trying to give O’Neill and Thomas and to an extent Williams a chance to make the team and contribute.

    “Now lots of things have to happen, right? You have got to see how Bader plays. You have got to see how Dex plays. But ultimately, you don’t want to have a young player up on your club if they are not playing every day. Right now you have to see how camp unfolds…”

    https://omny.fm/shows/sports-on-a-sunday-morning/john-mozeliak-27

    (This is about the 5:30 mark.)

    #123445
    AvatarSimba9
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    Thomas had a rough one yesterday. 5 LOB, K, Picked off , and an error.

    #123457
    Avatarbccran
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    Both Thomas and Williams were far short of adequate yesterday. Thank goodness Edman, Miller, and Ravelo
    can all play some outfield. And I’m still lobbying for Edman to be in CF if Bader doesn’t come around or is injured.

    #123458
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Carlson is 2-for-4 in games so far, both singles. A strikeout and an RBI.

    Is this hyperbole, recency bias or an accurate assessment? Certainly it is his informed point of view.

    At face value, this would include all MLB teams, covering recent stars to have emerged including Acuna and Soto. Very high praise, indeed.

    #123459
    AvatarSimba9
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    Ravelo actually didnt look bad. I still think Edman is best on the infield (good hands) . Still holding hope Oneill takes left and runs with it and Baders bat shows up.

    #123464
    thejagerthejager
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    I have been unimpressed with Williams and Thomas a well. Not just with the bat, but Williams hasnt run well, and basically got picked off twice, also i have no idea he didnt throw home on multiple plays in yesterday’s game (even Edmonds remarked on it)

    Also why did ONeill not play yesterday? 2 days off in a row? I thought this was a competition. Feels a lot more like ONeill is being handed LF, Bader in Cf, and Fowler in RF….everything else is just window dressing to try to hype up other players to distract from the lack of fixing the offense.

    It’s early, but it looks pretty clear we are going with: (outside a meteoric rise)

    Oneill, Bader, Fowler
    Carp, DeJong, Wong, Goldy, Yadi
    Edman, Wieters, Miller, Thomas

    then:
    Sosa or Munoz…i pick Sosa as it can be played like he is a rising star

    Ravelo could find a place in there over Thomas if Edman can prove he can play CF

    They are going to run Bader, Carp, Fowler, ONeill for at least a month into the season regardless of production

    If it works I will be happy…if it doesn’t it probably means we are pretty far out already…then it will be “call up the kids”…Carlson, Thomas, then one of whomever was playing ok from the above 4….then Edman is a starter at 3b…and sit back and pray for success


    So far….i have been very unimpressed with the guys who are supposed to be fixing things…and the hitting, it is early…i know…but it is not looking good…not even a lot of well struck balls…Carp had one decent hit..the other way but then nothing…outside of a bloop wind aided hit…

    on the good side… Carlson looks legit, Cecil has great break but we will see if he can control it, Edman looks the same which is nice, BMiller seems a find find even if redundant, Kim looks fine, Ravelo looks like a more laid back JMart…Whitley looked impressive yesterday…

    Still a long ways to go… but the MAIN concern for this team was the offense and all we have seen is a couple solo HRs and a bunch of nothing….

    #123465
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    jager said:

    then:
    Sosa or Munoz…i pick Sosa as it can be played like he is a rising star

    Ravelo could find a place in there over Thomas if Edman can prove he can play CF…

    I get most of what you wrote, except this.

    On your team, Bader is the starting CF and Thomas is the reserve. Ravelo isn’t competing with Thomas as much as he is with Sosa, Munoz, Knizner, Dean and Williams.

    I would find it difficult to see the Cards using three of their four non-catcher bench spots on guys who are primarily infielders (Edman, Miller and Sosa/Munoz). Possible, but less likely than two primary infielders and two primary outfielders, IMO.

    I just don’t think they want unproven CFs playing in CF, especially as a potential late-game replacement when Bader is pulled for a pinch-hitter. Too important of a position.

    #123472
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    I guess I look at spring training as being a good looking glass at folks you may not see much of during the regular season. Some of the regulars may also be working on something like you can see Carp working on that inside out swing to get hits to left field and forget about launch angle. Other guys will tinker with their batting stance or their fielding moves (infielders). Never forget that Pete Kozma won the Spring Training battle title one season and couldn’t hit diddly squat during the regular season (until he got to the Nats in the playoffs). Sit back and enjoy. Steals, errors, bobbles, balks all contribute to the learning environment. There will not be a test on this lecture.

    #123474
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    BW,
    With Miller and Edman both corner OF friendly, I see a 5th OF less likely, especially when we know Schildt likes Fowler as “proven” in CF (54 starts last season).

    I’d prefer a true SS backup in Sosa, with Edman and Miller as IF/OF types, and a 4th OF from the Thomas, Dean and Williams group. I don’t know how to justify Ravelo unless it’s RH power bench bat, and I’d prefer Munoz starts every day (minors) until needed. Bench rust two seasons in a row doesn’t seem right for a player who imo has development left.

    Nine times last season both Fowler and Edman started in the OF. Every time Fowler in CF, Edman in RF. I’m not seeing the Edman in CF idea others mentioned above.

    #123477
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    jj-cf-stl said:

    I don’t know how to justify Ravelo unless it’s RH power bench bat…

    I don’t think we are in that much of a disagreement. I would just point out that with one fewer bench spot last season, what you said just above could not be justified this year is exactly what happened all season long. Just replace “Ravelo” with “Jose Martinez”.

    The last three years at Triple-A, Ravelo slugged in the .470-.490 band every season. Some pop off the bench and a guy whose prospect status and growth is not hurt by him not playing most days.

    Unless DeJong goes on the IL, he is still going to start 150 games. Edman and Miller are there to soak up stray at-bats. Sosa would rust, just as Munoz did the last two years, but maybe even worse since Sosa is IF only. I’d have the two (Sosa and Munoz) starting every day in the middle infield at Memphis until a spot opens up that means a decent chance to play.

    #123485
    Avatargscottar
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    I am fine with either Ravelo or Sosa as the 26th man but I agree with Brian that Ravelo makes a little more sense. The signing of Miller was an indication that the Cardinal brass want someone more significant on the bench than Sosa or Munoz.

    I will go onto say that I predict we are going to look back on it and say that the Miller and Kim signings were very shrewd steals for the Cardinals. They didn’t cost much money and I expect big contributions from both.

    #123491
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    We are four games into the Grapefruit League portion of the season. Count me as one of those guys that don’t emphasize ST as a huge factor in the final decision-making…. especially now. The ever-present Mozeliak has so many other things to consider.

    #123492
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    The mention of J. Martinez reminds me of 20 DH starts, which helps me justify out of options Ravelo.

    #123521
    AvatarSimba9
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    “On your team, Bader is the starting CF and Thomas is the reserve. Ravelo isn’t competing with Thomas as much as he is with Sosa, Munoz, Knizner, Dean and Williams.”

    I see Ravelo competing for a spot with Thomas. If Thomas cant cut it and you need a different CF you slide Fowler over.

    #123538
    Avatargscottar
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    If Thomas cant cut it and you need a different CF you slide Fowler over.

    I wouldn’t do that under any circumstances. I would rather see Edman or O’Neill in CF than Fowler.

    #123539
    AvatarNigel T
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    I have O’Neill, Carlson, and Fowler across the grass. Ravelo and Bader from the right side. Miller from the left with Edman and Weiters creating a truly balanced bench with four extra outfielders and three extra infielders. I wonder who the emergency catcher would be?
    I guess DeJong is actually far more accomplished than Munoz though.

    #123621
    Avatar1982 willie
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    I like ravelo as a power bat off the bench and he is good enough defensively to spot start. personally I think they need to move on from munoz. while I would prefer they go with sosa, I know they are gonna give miller a spot though I just don’t care for him. I love carlsson swing but I want him to get more time in the minors. with the swing I see, he should have hit better than he did last year. im figuring that oneil and Thomas are gonna make team unless one or either just play themselves out of it. right now I feel bader is hitting good enough to merit his starting center field spot but still a ways to go.

    #123624
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
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    Dean has played in the two games that I’ve gotten to watch, I know it’s still early, but I’m far from impressed. The kid they traded seemed to be a solid lottery ticket.

    #123658
    AvatarSimba9
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    hmmm no one really wants CF
    Bader .300BA 4Ks swinging at low outside still
    Thomas.250BA 2Ks missplaying balls in the field
    its early but of those 2 its looking like Bader so far.
    Carlson looking pretty good but will be coming later after some time in AAA

    #123702
    Avatar1982 willie
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    Bader is always gonna be apt to swing at that pitch especially with two strikes. But he isn’t the only one that does that. To me bader has to take advantage of early count swinging. He takes a lot of first pitch strikes which is fine if you are a contact hitter but bader isn’t that or at least hasn’t shown it thus far. Its always cat and mouse between pitchers and batters but im a believer in being aggressive early more often than not especially when you have trouble laying off outside pitches with two strikes.

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