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I feel like the Rockies will either get the “big haul” by eating a good chunk of salary or accept not much in return, if they decide on a trade. Any combo of both will probably be a fleecing. Look at the Lindor return. The Mets didn’t have to give up their top prospects and Lindor, while a rental, also isn’t potentially due almost $200M at 30 years old in a down market. They also got Carrasco. I’m just not seeing the reason the Cards would give up Gorman or Liberatore if they aren’t getting significant money out of it.
“The Cardinal players have been buzzing about this for weeks”.
Wow, they are good at keeping a secret.
There are many different players the Cards could send back.
Carp, Fowler, CMart, Gorman, Montero, Knizner, Bader, O’Neill, Oviedo, etc…It depends on what the Rockies want. They will obviously want 3B help and they are always looking for pitching. Carp, Gorman, Knizner, and Ovideo would probably work but I wonder if there is a way the Cards could do the deal without sending Gorman.
Carp, Montero, Knizner, CMart, and Oviedo?
One thing about CMart I have been thinking about. There was a story recently about how his playing in the winter leagues was so he could show the Cardinals he was ready for 2021. Perhaps it was also to show the other organizations he was ready.
As for Arenado, I will still believe it when I see it. This would be completely counter to the vibe the Cardinals have been sending out all winter. It would be quite the head fake by DeWitt and Mo. It would also mean they wouldn’t have to worry about spending so much next winter. 🙂
On 101 Radio the other day, Matt Holliday referenced a big deal there was buzz about – without being specific.
My experience has been that agents are the no. 1 rumor source, followed by team employees and family members. Players themselves bring up the rear in my scoring.
Interesting parallel.
https://t.co/PvtyxsiDAx If the #Rockies are determined to move Arenado, the Stanton trade from the #Marlins to #Yankees offers a blueprint. #STLCards
— Joel Sherman (@Joelsherman1) January 29, 2021
Matt might have good intel in Denver. I suspect we will all be shocked at the minimal price in player return. That contract doesn’t look tenable at this point.
I am thinking Carp, CMart, and three prospects outside of our top eight. Montero might creep into the deal, but I am thinking Woodford, Fernandez, Elledge types as the return with Justin Williams.Nigel, with the opt out in place that’s very reasonable. COL killed their trade value with that opt out.
Nolan Arenado trade talks between #Rockies and #STLCards have gained momentum in the last week, source confirms @Ken_Rosenthal report. @MLBNetwork @MLB
— Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) January 29, 2021
I’m skeptical but if it happens does anyone know if Gorman can play second?
2B has become a less valuable defensive position since shifts have become more of a thing. Mike Moustakas was able to play the position at times, so I’d assume Gorman could play the new 2B, although probably not if anything changes with the rules on shifts.
I have long thought Gorman’s future might be at second. He grew up a short stop, and he isn’t too tall like some guys who move from short to third.
In a media call with us this morning, Mo would not comment on the trade talk, nor did he shoot it down.
Wainwright said there are “some things they are trying to pull of that would make people really happy.”
Has anyone seen who is being mentioned? Someone told me today that Fowler, Carpenter, Gorman and Carlson would be going to Colorado. I can’t find anything on this. If that is the case, there better be more than Arenado coming to St. Louis. Otherwise, that would be a very bad trade.
I like the plural form of thing. I would love for multiple moves from the clearance isle to accompany an Arenado deal.
Why trade Gorman? Just 20 years old..could possibly move to 1B if 3B doesn`t work out.I doubt Colorado would take more than 1 big contract back ( Carpenter? )…Maybe Carpenter,Oviedo,Helsley and Justin Williams
I have said all along that if a trade for Arenado was going to happen, it was going to have to be payroll net neutral for 2021. That means that two of Carpenter, Fowler, CMart would have to part of the trade. We’ll see…….
Muds, or payroll neutral with COL buying down Arenado, and STL sending one of our higher salaried players. So do you think STL should trade for the full amount remaining on Arenado’s contract?
If the Cards don’t have to give up Gorman in the deal, I’d be fine with them taking on more of the salary. With Waino and Yadi (say he signs for $8M as well), if Carp goes that nets us +$15.5M, for a total payroll of $157M this year. That’s a bit high, but if you figure that the team would have around $115-120M committed for next year even with Arenado at full salary, it means the Cards probably won’t even get to that same level of spending for 2022 even if they sign a major free agent or a couple of mid tier players.
I think CMart or Miller could be dark horse contracts and players to be included to make the finances work.
I do think Carp in that thin air could have a good year for the Rox. His power is still there. Just doesn’t play well in Busch. Lots of warming track shots from my memory. Though someone could probably find a site to see that visualized better.
Fowler seems a hard sell with his declining defense.
Carp + Cmart + Bader + Knizner + Oviedo
That clears 33-34 of Arenados 35
They can be rid of Carp after 21 and Cmart if they want. Still retain a starting cheap catcher with a good stick and a GG cf. and almost ready to go power rotation pitcher.
Jaeger is spot on. A Cmart, Andrew Miller, Johan Oviedo,Jr. Fernandez package could really boost a staff. 40 man roster space needs to be looked at. I am sure we have many lower level prospects who could be prized by Colo. and be squeezed in our system. The great Dennis Ortega could probably get the deal done if anyone in Colo. noticed he’s about to break out.
I think the trade will not happen unless St. Louis takes on the full amount of Arenado’s remaining contract. I don’t think the Cardinals will take on an additional $35M for 2021, though. The Cardinals want to be payroll neutral for 2021. The Rockie will have to take on contracts of equal value, or cash equivalent.
BTW, nothing to go on but past experience, but IMO, this trade is already done. What’s happening here is the same drill the Cardinals always do when they’re involved in a big trade. They do the trade behind the scenes. Then, when everything is agreed upon, a day or two before the press conference, they start leaking stuff about the impending trade. This creates time for the sportwriters to get their scoop and do their investigating, and it gives the talk show guys something to babble about, and it gets the fans all excited.
Talked to a couple of people connected to the Rockies, they believe Arenado will be dealt to the Cards. Not breaking news here, just adding some Colorado perspective.
— Jim Hayes (@TheCatOnBallyTV) January 30, 2021
#STLCards are pushing hard for Nolan Arenado. Word is, they seem very determined. Still there are complications: He has no-trade, though he hopes for a contender. He also has an opt-out after 2021 season, and Cards surely would prefer assurance he’d stay longer.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) January 30, 2021
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