November 23, 2020 at 11:59 am #148026OnyxgemParticipantFree
Prob because one is a all star STUD right now and there is little change that Gorman EVER reaches what Arenado has done or will continue to do, Gorman will be lucky to be 50% of the player Arenado is..November 23, 2020 at 12:32 pm #148033forsch31ParticipantFree
Why would you move Goldy to DH when he is one of the best fielding first basemen?
Someone said on another thread that MLB trade rumors estimates Turner will sign a 2 year, $24 million contract for 2021 and 2022. If that’s the case, forget about trading for Arenado and sign Turner. He can hold the position down until Gorman is ready.November 23, 2020 at 4:20 pm #148073
Prob because one is a all star STUD right now and there is little change that Gorman EVER reaches what Arenado has done or will continue to do, Gorman will be lucky to be 50% of the player Arenado is..
If you want to spend $35M to upgrade a position, wouldn’t it make more sense to choose a position that our number one prospect doesn’t play? Let’s spend $35M on an OF or $17.5M on an OF and $17.5M on another starting pitcher.November 23, 2020 at 7:47 pm #148087
Not only that, but Arenado is turning 30 and that doesn’t make you feel very confident about taking on that sort of contract. I think Gorman has a chance to be really good, but even if he’s just a good player, he’s gonna be cheap, probably hit a bunch of HRs and play passable defense at 3B. We have our #1, 5, 6 and 14 prospects at that position so I’d bet on finding a long term starter there. Finding a SS to bump Dejong to 2nd or a big OF bat should be the priorities for the offense after 2021.December 4, 2020 at 1:43 pm #148819
Here we go again. It seems to me that Axisa has little knowledge of how things work in the Cardinal’s upstairs office. This happens only if Molina finds a little nest in another MLB city…. and then its a wild stretch.
Where will Nolan Arenado land if the Rockies trade him this offseason?
The star third baseman has a rocky relationship with Colorado’s front office
By Mike Axisa
The bet here is Arenado winds up in St. Louis. They say payroll is coming down and the surprising Kolten Wong decision backs that up, though I get the feeling the Cardinals will figure out a way to make an Arenado trade work, perhaps by sending a veteran back the other way to offset money (Dexter Fowler? Carlos Martinez?). St. Louis has a history of targeting star players unhappy with their current situation (Stanton, Scott Rolen, etc.) and Arenado fits.December 4, 2020 at 1:49 pm #148820
This happens only if Molina finds a little nest in another MLB city…. and then its a wild stretch.
If the Cards had interest in Arenado for real, do you really think they would go with a unproven, likely backup catcher all season? I’d say Yadi would be a lock to return if Arenado was coming over.December 4, 2020 at 1:50 pm #148821Nigel TParticipantPaid - Three Months
This ship has sailed. Think Matt Chapman if we were to go big.December 5, 2020 at 11:04 am #148846
I agree with the ship…. F.O. is not going to go big…. any expectations should be low.December 5, 2020 at 12:14 pm #148849
I would say there is less than a 1% chance the Cards acquire Arenado this winter. I really wish the Dodgers or someone would get him so we could move onto something else.December 5, 2020 at 1:01 pm #148851
Arenado has said that he talked to Matt Holliday about the Cardinals and its fan base, and heard good things. After that, Arenado about as much as said that St. Louis is his preference to play. Mozeliak loves players that say they want to play for his team, and I suspect WDW is the motivator behind that. No doubt that the Rockies’ owners are freaking out over the megacontract that they gave Arenado. But would they take Carpenter and Fowler for one year in order to get free of the remaining years of Arenado’s contract? If they would, then the numbers work for St. Louis.
Everything about how a trade might, or might not, happen is speculation because the Cardinals’ front office is so tight lipped about what they do. But one thing that is not speculation is that this rumor keeps coming up over and over again.December 5, 2020 at 1:10 pm #148852
When you are on a deadline and there is no real news, you can either create some via speculation or rehash old topics. This is a case of the latter.December 6, 2020 at 10:36 am #148871
If the Rockies would take Carpenter and Fowler, then for 2021 the payroll stays net neutral meaning that there is no added payroll for 2021. With all the money coming off the books after the 2021 season, the Cardinals would have enough ‘payroll flexibility’ to pay Arenado and still sign Lindor or another one of the elite shortstops that will be free agents. Three years after the 2021 season, Goldschmidt’s money comes off the books. The Cardinals’ cheap pitching is what’s making any of this even possible. The biggest unanswered question posing the biggest risk, IMO, is whether or not the fans will return in the huge numbers of pre-COVID.December 6, 2020 at 11:32 am #148874
I keep thinking to myself knowing that this is a dream…. Arenado is one of a handful of MLB players that could, alone, move our fans to think about the WS. Can you imagine the impact of having him in the middle of our lineup? Maybe in another life.December 6, 2020 at 12:12 pm #148882
If the Rockies would take Carpenter and Fowler…
Even if their front office was stupid enough to consider it, the Rockies’ owner surely would not let this happen. But it would be a tremendous trade for the Cardinals…December 6, 2020 at 12:28 pm #148886
If the Rockies would take Carpenter and Fowler, then for 2021 the payroll stays net neutral meaning that there is no added payroll for 2021.
Why in the world would the Rockies do that? I guess if we threw in Gorman, Liberatore, Knizer, and Oviedo they might consider it. No thanks.
Arenado is not happening nor should it.
December 6, 2020 at 1:15 pm #148889
- This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by gscottar.
Even if their front office was stupid enough to consider it, the Rockies’ owner surely would not let this happen. But it would be a tremendous trade for the Cardinals…
While those two specific players might be pie in the sky. Arenado may have a worse contract than Stanton’s was at this point. The Rockies will have to take significant contracts back from a team or offer financial relief to get anyone to take him right now.December 6, 2020 at 3:38 pm #148890
So, how badly do the Rockies want to move Arenado’s contract? Those Monfort brothers out in Colorado would rather lose games, than lose money, IMO. There are probably only two teams that would even consider taking on Arenado’s contract, St. Louis, maybe, and Los Angeles (Dodgers), maybe.
I have a feeling that if Carpenter goes to Denver, he would finish his final MLB season with a bang. There’s a reason for Carpenter’s drop off, and it’s not old age. That reason might evaporate if he played in Colorado’s fresh, thin air. Fowler could benefit from a fresh start and a new fan base, also. That would make the trade look favorable to the Rockies.
Supposedly, WDW was the motivator for taking on Stanton’s contract, so no one can say that he’s afraid of a megacontract.
I think the Cardinals could make a deal without including Gorman mainly because the Rockies have greater pressure to trade Arenado than the Cardinals have to acquire him. And that’s because Arenado wants out of Colorado and has a megacontract, and the Cardinals have four up and coming third baseman. Keep Gorman in the organization, and move him to second base eventually. Walker might be able to move to the outfield, and Montero or Nunez could be part of the trade.
All bets are off if there are attendance problems for the Cardinals in 2021. They are a mid market team and cannot afford the kind of payroll that they carry without fans in the seats.December 6, 2020 at 3:56 pm #148891jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
Reclaiming 33milper season (2022-2026) would allow COL to reshape their org in any direction they choose. Want to extend Trevor Story long term? Done. Want to instead lower the budget by 33mil, to help cover losses incurred in 20′ & 21′? Done. Etc., any direction they choose, they have the financial flexibility.
Players besides Carp & Fowler to COL? Maybe some window dressing, but no-one of major value. Currently teams don’t feel the need to re-claim value before losing a player. Wong, Hand, Rosario, you know the list, just get out from under the contract. It’s currently more important to limit financial commitments.
COL would be smart to do it without eating any of Arenado’s contract, asap, which is why STL shouldn’t.December 7, 2020 at 8:51 am #148927
I am sure Colorado would like to get rid of Arendado’s contract but they aren’t going to take on a couple of crap contracts like Carp’s and Fowler’s to do it. They would want high end prospects only.December 7, 2020 at 9:23 am #148937
I am sure Colorado would like to get rid of Arendado’s contract but they aren’t going to take on a couple of crap contracts like Carp’s and Fowler’s to do it. They would want high end prospects only.
You realize that they would still be saving $165 million dollars even if they took on Carp and Fowler? That is a gigantic favor that the Cards would be doing them, $35M a year for four years and then $32M and $27M. I’m sure they’d like to get high end prospects, but they won’t get them.
The Stanton deal would be a blueprint. The Marlins took on Starlin Castro, who was owed almost $24M, offered up to $30M in future salary relief, and got the Yankees #9 prospect and a flier in return. Stanton had some more owed on his deal, but he also had more control with three years before his opt out to Arenado’s one. It would be something like the Cards offering Carp, Fowler and Oviedo, or just Carp and Cmart, and getting some future salary relief if he stays.
In this market, even a player like Arenado just doesn’t have much value.December 7, 2020 at 9:51 am #148942
You realize that they would still be saving $165 million dollars even if they took on Carp and Fowler?
Not for 2021 they wouldn’t. Arenado makes $35M and Carp and Fowler make a combined $35M. If Covid has really devastated revenues as much as the owners claim then the Rockies probably want relief for 2021. The only way they would tolerate Carp and Fowler is if we loaded them down with several high end prospects.December 7, 2020 at 9:52 am #148943
What some do not seem to realize is that the Rockies do not have to trade with the Cardinals. There are going to be other teams offering better players without them having to take on bad contracts.
P.S. Where Arenado may or may not want to play is totally insignificant as it seems he does not have no-trade protection. This is a huge advantage to the Rockies that the Marlins did not have with Stanton, for example. Though Arenado has the opt-out after 2021, it seems extremely unlikely he would take it, no matter what team he is on.December 7, 2020 at 9:53 am #148944jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
?December 7, 2020 at 9:54 am #148945
Not for 2021 they wouldn’t. Arenado makes $35M and Carp and Fowler make a combined $35M. If Covid has really devastated revenues as much as the owners claim then the Rockies probably want relief for 2021. The only way they would tolerate Carp and Fowler is if we loaded them down with several high end prospects.
They’re not trying to trade him for 2021 salary relief, though. They were trying to trade him before, when the market was considerably better. At this point, with Arenado coming off a bad 2020 and a shoulder injury, they would be lucky to give him away for nothing. There’s zero, and I mean zero chance that the Rockies get anything close to a high end prospect without eating a lot of money or another bad contract (or two, if one year deals).
Like I said, look at the Stanton deal. Do you really think that Arenado’s deal is worth that much more in prospects than Stanton’s?December 7, 2020 at 9:59 am #148947
What some do not seem to realize is that the Rockies do not have to trade with the Cardinals. There are going to be other teams offering better players without having to take on bad contracts.
I fully realize that, but there’s no one in this market willing to take that contract without offloading something of their own. I would be as shocked as anything in my baseball loving life if the Rockies trade Arenado and don’t either pony up money, take iffy contracts back or accept nothingburger prospects in return.
I don’t expect the Cards to trade for him and I don’t really even want him, but the other teams aren’t going to be sending anything of value to the Rockies without some big concessions.
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