Nolan Arenado trade thread

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  • #120290
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    If the Cardinals are gonna spend that kind of money I’d rather they just go after Betts in the offseason.

    #120294
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    < I don’t think they’re interested in trading Marp. His offense this year could very well be as good as Arenado’s offense be would hitting at Busch III.>

    That will be the day. I notice that when most folks, including the Cards scribblers, make the statement about Carp they always include the word “could”. When speaking of Arenado the proper word to use is “will” as has been proven over and over again. I just don’t think he is a two month wonder. Carp, admittedly not my favorite, is a Cardinal and I support him but I just don’t think we should be looking for any miraculous comeback. He seems to march to his own drummer – aggressiveness announced, launch angle announced, hits into shift – not much change. JMHO

    #120295
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    <Does this roster matrix up there say that Allen Craig was our 1B for the 2011 World Series? Yikes.>

    Uh, I think Allen Craig caught the last fly ball in the 2011 World Series…………..in left field.

    #120302
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    He did, Holliday was injured, hand I think. Craig did also get starts in RF, when Berkman DH’d. Beltran didn’t join stl until 2012. Albert started 7 games at 1B

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl.
    #120305
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    Not knowing who our 1B was for the 2011 World Series title is grounds for being banished to the Cubs for a season.

    #120321
    Avatar1964cards
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    For the record,

    2011 World Series Game 7 Starting Line Up for the St. Louis Cardinals:

    1. Theriot, 2B
    2. Craig, LF
    3. Pujols, 1B
    4. Berkman, RF
    5. Freeze, 3B
    6. Molina, C
    7. Furcal, SS
    8. Schumaker, CF
    9. Carpenter, P

    Per Baseball Reference.

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by Avatar1964cards.
    #120330
    Avatar858booyah
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    Didn’t Holliday drop a flyball or maybe 2 in game 6?

    #120331
    Avatarmudville
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    It sure will be awkward for the Rockies to have their superstar player show up at spring training feeling disgruntled after saying, essentially, that he doesn’t like his bosses, the bosses that have to pay him $35M for the next two years, and $234M if he doesn’t opt-out. They’ll probably kiss and make up, but if they don’t, it will be tough for everyone involved. Incidentally, the only reason that I can think of as to why he would not opt-out is that if MLB’s economy tanked because of long strike. That seems incredibly unlikely but stranger things have happened.

    #120332
    Avatar858booyah
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    If the Cardinals are gonna spend that kind of money I’d rather they just go after Betts in the offseason

    They won’t! They’ll string us along and right around WWU time will give some cryptic message from Bowtie or Girsch and then We’ll get a press release late in the night from Dewitt saying “we’re confident in what we have” or “We don’t anticipate adding anything else” and that will be it. Molina and Cecil money coming off the books be damned.

    #120333
    Avatar858booyah
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    Arenado and his agent are behind most of these rumors. Rockies would want the farm for him and no one wants to give it up with the opt out looming and they flat out don’t want to be in Colorado any longer after them doing nothing to improve the team in the offseason.

    #120342
    Avatargscottar
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    The Cardinals won’t have much payroll room next winter either. Cecil and Leake will come off the books but there will be several arbitration cases to account for.

    No salary relief for us for two years.

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by Avatargscottar.
    #120348
    AvatarLACardFan
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    And Yadi should sign for at least $10 million less than he is currently making, and Miller will come off the books as well.

    #120349
    Avatar1964cards
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    Agree gscottar. At this point I would assume:

    – Wong and Miller return … $3M increase YOY
    – Yadi signs a contract offering some salary relief (hopefully an incentive based contract) … savings TBD
    – Wainright retires … savings TBD
    – Cecil is released … $7.5M decrease YOY
    – Cards will have the potential for as many as seven players going through arbitration … six first year (Flaherty being the headliner).

    So it appears money could be tight again unless something changes.

    #120351
    AvatarLACardFan
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    Wong and Miller return … $3M increase YOY

    Wong’s option is for $2 million more than this year. If Miller performs like last year, he will not be returning at all.

    #120360
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    Miller’s option vests with enough innings. He will easily make the innings threashold if he stays healthy most of the season.

    #120361
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    I have 2021vpayroll at about $135 million without Yadi and allocating $5 million for Jack’s arbitration. If Yadi gets $10 million that would still leave $25 million for a MOTO bat or other upgrades.

    #120362
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    <Not knowing who our 1B was for the 2011 World Series title is grounds for being banished to the Cubs for a season. >

    That name is no longer spoken around here. He shall be known as Player A.

    #120367
    Avatargscottar
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    And Yadi should sign for at least $10 million less than he is currently making, and Miller will come off the books as well.

    Miller will most likely not be coming off the books. He only needs 37 appearances in 2020 for his 2021 option to become automatic. That should be easy barring serious injury.

    #120373
    Avatargscottar
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    I have 2021vpayroll at about $135 million without Yadi and allocating $5 million for Jack’s arbitration. If Yadi gets $10 million that would still leave $25 million for a MOTO bat or other upgrades.

    I have the 2021 payroll at around $158M.

    It currently sits at $98M. Add 16 for Yadi (the minimum they can give him if extended before the end of the season), add 12 for Miller, add 12.5 for Wong, add 15 for all arbitration salaries, and add 5 for league minimum players.

    Unless Mr. DeWitt approves a big payroll jump that doesn’t leave much room for anything significant. I don’t foresee major additions until 2022.

    #120377
    thejagerthejager
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    Our offense last year was not good…worst leadoff in the game, major swings of poor play for extended periods of time…and we did nothign to fix that…in fact we got worse by Ozuna, JMart, and Randy leaving…heck even the hope for Gyorko returning to normal would maybe help

    Our entire outlook for improving the offense is to HOPE everyone plays better than last year (that’s what we planned last year too remember), and that all the kids are silver bullets

    Sure, all of that could happen, but the WORST thing about the team last year was the offense…the thing that even the FO noted was bad and inconsistent…yet they have done NOTHING but make moves for pitching and send away hitters…

    i am sorry but as much as i was ok with JMart and OZuna leaving, they were productive parts of the offense, and we replaced them with Lane Thomas/ONeill and Ravelo…both options are HIGHLY unproven

    This is a recipe for disaster…a disaster I am not wanting to see nor will i hope for…but i think it is disingenuous for anyone to think that the FO has done anything to fix the NUMBER 1 fault of last year’s team…

    #120378
    thejagerthejager
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    sorry i messed up the matrix thing….i had 2012 up on my screen in baseball reference….and it says “2011” in the upper left just under the bolded 2012…but i was flipping back and forth with the years to compare the players and i made a mistake

    ALSO…i include Rasmus and Furcal as they were the players intended to be in those positions BEFORE the year started, which is what we are discussing now…who was playing where in the Series is not important

    having said that…the point is still valid even for 2012 too…..even if my specifics were off

    Apologies regardless

    BELOW…is the amended (i will say for 2011…you could put DD in there instead of Furcal for the 2 extra major players, but seeing as Furcal was intended to be in that role i think it is fair for this comparison
    ———–

    2006, and 2011…World Series victors…compared to today:

    c- Yadi………..Yadi………..Yadi
    1- Pujols………Pujols…….Goldy
    2- Miles……….Skip………….Wong
    3- Rolen……….Theriot………Carp
    ss- Ecks……….Freese………DeJong
    lf- Taguchi…….Holliday…….Thomas
    cf- Edmonds…….Rasmus…………Bader
    rf- Encarnacion…Berkman……..Fowler
    (Jrod,Speizio)…(Craig,Furcal)..(Carlson,Edman)

    3 big stars……..3 big stars….1 big star

    4 from system…….5 from system……8 from system
    6 out of system…..5 out of system….2 out of system

    • This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by thejagerthejager.
    #120385
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    Mudville>>>>>>> No, the revenue at Ballpark Village is not being considered, but neither is the revenue from the rest of DeWitt’s holdings, and neither is the revenue from the minority’s holdings being considered. Whether they need more money or not, anyone would enjoy seeing some sort of return on their investment, otherwise it seems like charity,

    gsc>>>>>>In the past few years publications like Forbes have mentioned the Cardinals as one of the most profitable teams in MLB. We also know that the Cardinals are usually second or third in attendance behind the Dodgers or Yankees. We know that the Cardinals are now in a $1 Billion TV deal and last year had the third highest rating from their regional sports network, after being first in 2018.

    Add all of that up and we know the Cardinals have a lot of revenue. Mr. DeWitt says the Cardinals are 11th in revenue. I am not sure what data he is using. I have found some information to indicate the Cardinals rank higher in that category.

    Hmmmm….. maybe the $$$ is earmarked for going the other way?

    #120426
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    #120427
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    #120460
    Avatargscottar
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    I am 99% sure that the Rockie fans will side with Arenado over their bungling front office.

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