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I would not want to trade Edman, a guy who can play five or six positions. I would not mind seeing Hudson sent as part of an Arenado trade. Those 16 wins have to be tainted with his walk performance. He probably has room for more improvement but, if push came to shove, I prefer losing him over Edman.
Arenado’s opt-out is the elephant in the room, but, It’s an ADVANTAGE for the buyer and a disadvantage for the seller. COLO is on the clock with Arenado’s opt-out date and their opportunity to somewhat replace his value through trade.
These Libertore, Hudson, C-Mart & O’Neill rumors seem irresponsible to me for two seasons of guaranteed Arenado team control.
Our FO offer should start with Carp and C-Mart. That’s 30mil to help offset of Arenado’s 35mil, for two seasons. C-Mart and Carp also have option years, but that would be Colo’s business. Add prospects O’Neill and Knizner, a total of four mlb ready players.
I don’t believe Arenado would opt-out after two seasons in Stl, so I’d ignore the opt-out as a buyer, but limit our trade package as his limited team control suggests.
Go Chiefs!
I am not as high on Edman, and much more optimistic about O’Neill than most on here. Edman was about 100 points higher in OPS with the Cardinals than his typical minor league season. His versatility is valuable, and he would be a good guy to have because of that. But I think his long-term value is maybe 85% or so of what he showed last year.
Meanwhile O’Neill’s MLB OPS is a good 100 points less than his minor league numbers. He has terrific natural power, good speed, and a short, compact batting stroke.
I believe a club needs to put him out there and stick through the tough times with him, and he will develop in to a very good player. He could have a couple of monster seasons where things just click, but a normal season would be 30-35 homers and a lot of going first to third (Edman would do the first-to-third a lot as well).
I don’t understand the call to add Knizner to the Arenado trade. When will we ever develop a future first line catcher if we keep trading them away. Kelly is now a starter for the DBacks and we turned to Knizner to replace him in the Yadi backup game. Wieters did a decent job for one year and may even be signed again but Yadi lately seems to spend a month or two on the IL and Knizner could get some good experience during that time alternating with Wieters or as the regular backup catcher if Wieters is not resigned.
With all the Arenado rumors does anyone believe Mo when he says there have been no trade discussions in the last 7-10 days?
No I don’t, CC. Edman is a player you just don’t let go of. Some players are simply untouchable. On our Cardinals, Goldy is touchable….Wong is touchable…..O’Neill is touchable….Marcell is very touchable….Carp & Fowler, heck you can maul those two……Edman, Flaherty and Thomas are untouchables. As much as I would hate to part with Hudson, I would in an Arenado trade.
MM,
Knizner is trade specific to the Rockies, as is C-Mart and O’Neill. Carp is include for salary reasons. That’s my reasoning for including Knizner, but I’m not speaking for others.I would trade any player in our system straight up.for Arenado. It is the multiple player combinations that become problematic.
Pugs, what happened to those Packers in San Francisco???
Nightmare of a game, Rat! I know we GB fans are spoiled, but it’s becoming painfully obvious to me that we need to start looking for our next general (QB) very quickly. Unfortunately, numerous more pressing issues exist on the other side of the ball. It’s been so long since we’ve had that real tough smack you in the mouth football team. I miss Chuck Cecil!
Knizer is mentioned in trade talks because he has a lot of value and can’t get any playing time in St. Louis. Yadi refuses to cede playing time and the FO is scared to death of him PR wise, therefore Knizer can either sit on the bench, go back to Memphis again, or be trade bait. It is obvious that Ivan Herrera is now the heir apparent.
I find the Yadi-as-a-villain theme here to be amusing. The Cardinals should really try to stop having loyal, whole-career superstars. If I had to guess, people were saying similar about Wainwright last year before he shut them up.
I don’t view Yadi as a villain but I am opposed to lifetime achievement awards disguised as contracts. The Cardinals are supposedly led by an analytic driven front office, which most on here celebrate, however do the analytics really support paying $20M to declining 37 year old players then extend them once again? I doubt it.
Why do the Cardinals do it? It is because of legacy. There can be no other reason. I am not anti-Yadi. He has been a great Cardinal but if he is going to remain on the team he should be willing to accept lower cost one year deals, just like Waino did.
If the Cardinals are truly worried about their payroll then they should stop giving out big contracts to their players in their 30’s. Otherwise, they should stop complaining about the budget and spend the necessary money to get high achieving players, CBT be damned. Spending on aging, unproductive players to artificially prop up their payroll so they can then go to the fans and say “look at how much our payroll is” is absurd.
Why do the Cardinals do it? It is because of legacy. There can be no other reason.
When you go to games, you must sit on the front row. Otherwise, you’d see that the stadium is littered with Molina jerseys. He brings value, even if you can’t see it.
When you go to games, you must sit on the front row. Otherwise, you’d see that the stadium is littered with Molina jerseys. He brings value, even if you can’t see it.
So his jersey sales justify his salary despite production? I guess that is one way of looking at it. I think that is how the Phillies justified the Harper contract.
The fans love him. Don’t forget, DeWitt isn’t running a charity. The atmosphere that the Cardinals have is a positive thing, even if it means paying more for players who aren’t “earning it” on the field. Yadi brings a lot to the table, even analytics people will admit that he brings value that they can’t properly measure that is helpful to the W/L record.
Taking care of your guys is not a bad things. Yadi being overpaid for his WAR is way down the list of negative things on our payroll.
IMO, if fans are worried about how the Cardinals spend their money on payroll, they should make an offer to buy the team. Otherwise, accept that they spend a reasonable amount on payroll or quit buying Cardinals merchandise and attending games. The owners own the team and can do what they want. I have no control over it except to choose to support the team or not.
I think it’s okay, as a fan, to comment about perceived payroll mistakes. Heck, I think it’s okay to call owners cheap. It can get a little tiresome when that’s all some people talk about, but that’s okay, too. But I am also not going to take shots at a player’s character for him making more money than I think he should have been paid. Yadi has become a punching bag for some people around here, and that amazes me.
Gives us something to talk about when the weather is cold.
Don’t forget, DeWitt isn’t running a charity.
That is exactly my point, this isn’t a charity. Big contracts should be earned.
IMO, if fans are worried about how the Cardinals spend their money on payroll, they should make an offer to buy the team. Otherwise, accept that they spend a reasonable amount on payroll or quit buying Cardinals merchandise and attending games. The owners own the team and can do what they want. I have no control over it except to choose to support the team or not.
People on message boards are allowed to offer dissenting opinions. Just because some of us don’t agree with ownership or the front office 100% of the time like blind sheep doesn’t mean we aren’t fans. I am sure the DeWitt’s will gladly take my money regardless of my opinions.
Yadi and Waino are the only 2 current Cardinals who deserve to be a little overpaid just to keep them lifetime Cardinals. I like that the Cardinals respect the special players who have spent their entire, exceptional career in the uniform. I don’t expect them to do an extreme overpay.
If they are smart, they will wait to the end of the season and re-sign Yadi when the 20% maximum cut is not a factor. Don’t make the same mistake that they did with Carpenter. I don’t like Carpenter’s deal but understand why they extended him 2 years. I certainly didn’t expect his production to drop as much as it did this past year. They might have been able to save $8 million + in salary to Carp.
BTW, my comments about payroll comes from the belief that the owners COMPLAIN about their budget. I have never seen them complain about their budget. They have made points that they choose to stay within a reasonable payroll. I have only heard the fans complain about the team’s budget like it is the fans’ money to spend.
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