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bccran
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I’m actually talking about me, Forsch. I’ve been strong in defense of MM and some people don’t like that.
They tend to jump on, and don’t want to engage in talking about Mike’s strengths and weaknesses. Or that Bill Dewitt has been acclaimed as one of the best owners in baseball, even with making moves like Heyward, Fowler, Cecil, and not securing a #3 or #4 hitter in the off season. Look at NJ’s post above. He’s just going to pack his bags and leaving.Brian likes to deal with facts. So do we.
1. Cardinal won-record under MM compared to
other Cardinal managers.
2.) Strength of teams (accumulated WAR) under various Cardinal managers and their records those years.
3.) TOtal WAR days lost to injury in 2016 compared to division rivals.
4.) Who the #3 and #4 hitters were going into 2017.I know you were talking about you. You talk like you are the only one being “slamed”. You did question my credentials.
NJ315 only asked you at least 3 times to explain how you have continually said that Matheny’s W/L record shows he is good but this year it is the players’ fault they are doing bad. Why the double standard?
DeWitt is a great owner and Mo has done a good job as GM. Even Matheny has done a good job as a manager, overall. However, he is not great. I want great. I think Francona would have been the better pick. I think Matheny should have been a manager somewhere else or a coach for a few years before being the Cardinal manager. I think it would have been best for him.
You are correct about the winning percentages. However, in his 2 best years, the Cardinals have performed other-worldly in one area or another. In 2013, they had the best BA with runners in scoring position since 1950 IN ALL THE MLB. In 2015, their pitching staff had a 2.94 ERA. I am sure that affected a few wins. He also inherited a much better team than any of the other 3 had inherited. Although, I will agree that the 2012 team was not as good as the 2011 team.
If Matheny’s actions caused us 2 losses last year, that cost us the postseason. 2 wins and we were in.
My only point is that all manager’s have their pluses and minuses. Managers are hard to compare and difficult to stack rank. Madden was a genius to some, and then he pulled that stunt with Chapman. He didn’t look so smart then. And he sure hasn’t looked so smart this season compared to last.
Everyone lauded Bruce Bochy.
He was the best of the best when he was winning World Series. Now he’s not held in quite so high esteem. Let’s be fair to these guys. And not call one of them “the worst manager in baseball”. They are all human, and subject to the resultant negatives….and positives….of that condition.Another minor point, Herzog was only in his 7th full season as a manager when he won the World Series. He took over the Cardinals in the middle of the season. He took over for the Royals in the middle of the season. He coached the Angels(?) For 4 games one season. When you look at his record, the 1981 season is usually listed on 2 separate lines. One is the first half before the strike. The other is the second half after the strike. If I were to list those 4 managers in order of how good I thought they were, I would list them: Herzog, LaRussa, Matheny and Torre. I think Torre is overrated.
At the bottom line level, thanks to the winning streak, this year’s record is very close to last. The difference is the Cubs.
After 115 games:
2016: 60-55, 13 games behind Cubs
2017: 59-56, 1 game behind CubsQuestion. Players can be analyzed statistically all day. How do you measure managers “statistically”, if not by wins and losses in the 10-15% role they have in that?
Record vs. cummlulative and comparative WAR for their team vs. their position in the standings might be good. It would take some work, but the statistics are there. When MM took that team to the WS in 2013, I wonder how the Cards accumlative WAR matched up against the Pirates and the Dodgers in the playoffs?
One poster on here used mathematics to measure results vs. expectations. That was great. Wish we could see more mathematical approaches like that. Sure beats personal opinions. Sorry to see NJ go. I wonder if he appreciated that mathematical approach that was offered by a poster.Apparently you went to bed early Friday night after your gloating comment on the game thread about the manager and just before the Cecil fiasco almost cost them the game.
Thanks to the hot streak, Matheny has cut off two games from his Actual-to-Pythagorean deficit this year. We are now only a -3, with an expected record of 64-53 compared to 61-56 actual. He was -5 a week ago.
Joe Maddon is -1, 60-55 compared to an expected mark of 61-54. Milwaukee is right there as well, with an expected mark of 61-58, one better than the 60-59 pace they have set.
Thus based on runs scored vs runs given up, we are the best team in the Central over the first roughly 70% of the season. We have been sabotaged by poor fundamentals, inconsistency on both offense and defense – some of which is due to injuries, an under-performing bullpen much of the year, and some less-than-stellar late-and-close game management decisions.
I think what has gotten us back on track, is a steady lineup that has come together, and the improved bullpen pitching. We finally have a solid eight starting lineup and fairly consistent batting order. A major key has been the return of Kolten Wong to everyday status, and Dexter looks much better since coming back. Grichuk responds better to every day play and needs to stay in right field the rest of the season. Pham is a lock in left, and DeJong has rejuvenated the shortstop position.
The Belleville News-Democrat shares a rumor about the nature of a potential Matheny-Oquendo rift.
https://www.bnd.com/living/liv-columns-blogs/answer-man/article167882617.html
Might be something to it. I’ve asked people I know in the organization and they haven’t responded.
The lack of response is unusual.2 comments.
1. If Oquendo is that sensative as to get upset over one disagreement in philosophy, maybe he is not the man some think he is.
2. I never thought Oquendo was a particularly good decision maker as a 3rd base coach.
Since Oquendo left he hasn’t exactly endeared himself with the organization. What is with all this undermining of Matheny’s position? He’s not going anywhere.
The Belleville News-Democrat has published an article calling for Matheny’s firing.
https://www.bnd.com/sports/mlb/st-louis-cardinals/cheap-seats-blog/article174308496.html
I agree. His performance during the Cubs series was nothing short of abysmal. For a 6 year manager is inexcusable.
I think that if as it seems that we don’t make the playoffs that article will soon have a lot of company…
It probably is time to move on. Matheny will not stand up to yadi and we need a manager who will. If carson kelly is going to be the heir apparent at catcher then he needs playing time and yadi needs to rest in order to stay fresh. As was mentioned in the article the fundamentals have done nothing but get worse in his tenure and that needs to be corrected.
bccran
I know I wont get anywhere with you as I’ve seen your previous posts but, It’s the manager and coaches responsibility to teach and effect change in fundamentals correct? That is obviously not improving. I know you’re probably going to say the players should already know the fundamentals by the time they reach this level and you’re not wrong. In my eyes it’s the managers job to make sure the players aren’t getting sloppy.
If Matheny gets fired, I hope they don’t try to replace him with the Reds manager, Brian Price. All anybody has to do is look at the box score from yesterday (9-19), or tonight (9-20), and its clear that he is terrible at managing his bullpen. Also, stay away from Scott Servais in Seattle. He’s been terrible handling his pitching. And so has Clint Hurdle and every other manager with a losing record. Try to get Dave Roberts away from the Dodgers, or A.J. Hinch from the Astros, or Dusty Baker from the Nationals. That will solve everything that’s wrong with this team.
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