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2018 Roy-2
2019 MVP-9
2020 MVP-5
2021 MVP-2If anyone expected more from Soto, they weren’t being realistic.
Who wants a 23 year old who turns down $440 million? Let’s stay with players who wanted to be surrounded by other talented players.
Who wants a 23 year old who turns down $440 million?
We should hire him cheap 10 years from now when he’s done.
For what Soto would cost us we could get two valuable starting pitchers and still have a couple of prospects left.
No way the Cards mortgage their future for one player who would only be a 2 1/2 year rental. The future is already exciting with Arenado, Goldy, Gorman, Carlson, Edman, Yepez, Walker, Winn, Gomez, and Burleson.
Arenado and Goldy are on the downside of their careers. It’s exciting to think about the future and how bright it is, but the 2012-13 Cards had just as exciting a group of prospects and got no World Series appearances after 2013 for their troubles. There’s just no guarantee with prospects.
Walker, Gorman, Winn, Carlson, Burleson could produce 5 All Stars every year, or 0 ever. It’s not a promise. Soto is already a superstar and could get even better. Does it absolutely mean they should make the trade? No. But if the FO decides to go all in, I won’t complain.
Goldy and Arenado have a few more good years and are not playing like they are on the downside of their careers.
Exactly, GameCard. Arenado is years away from a decline and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if the Cards extend Goldy to overlap with Arenado’s total years here. Sone guys are still highly productive in their mid thirties.
For the ump-teenth time….
Significant pitching acquisitions needed.If Stl decides to acquire Soto, they will not be acquiring an over-hyped player. That’s nonsense.
Maybe Mo is trying to negotiate an extension with Soto. Offing a boatload of controllable talent would look different if Soto was on board long term. Yeah, we need rotation help, but just sayin.
BB, with all the big brass in WSH for this series it does make you wonder.
Castillo with a season less control brought a 55, 55, 50 and a unranked. Pretty strong return. “Boatload” may be accurate for Soto.
After watching highlights of Walker and Winn no way I trade them. They are special and in combination will be cornerstones of the next era. Walker just has “it” and there is little doubt on his current path will be a superstar. Winn has flashes of Ozzie in him and is the most athletic SS prospect we’ve had since Ozzie. He will save runs and be serviceable at the bottom of the order.
High praise for both and no way I trade either for Soto who is great but not worth the future the two players above portend.
I believe Winn is more fluid without a shadow of a doubt and yes more athletic. He’s the better defensive shortstop no question. Edman is good but he profiles better long term at the keystone.
I would feel more comfortable going all in if we were acquiring what we actually need, which is pitching.
Walker is a 3rdbaseman, correct?
So…..with Arenado in place for a few more years is Walker being trained for another spot? Such as the outfield?
Walker hopefully can play LF or maybe he shifts over to 1B long term when Goldy moves on. Either way he’s an exciting player.
Right now, Walker is playing 3B. After all, Arenado could be gone after this year if he opts out. I think his long term position will be right field or first base.
I would feel more comfortable going all in if we were acquiring what we actually need, which is pitching.
You realize that we could acquire pitching as well, right? We don’t have to trade prospects for mediocre pitchers. Even with Soto, the Cards could sign a guy like Clevinger next year for a flier and add a stable arm like Bassitt or Manaea and probably be in the $180-185M range, which is plenty in line with what you’d expect payroll to be had it continued in line with the the way things went 2010-2019. Not only that but with another season, Liberatore and Thompson could be ready to contribute. Bader could be traded for a relief arm or pitcher with one year on his contract after this year to bolster as well.
I am in no way interested in wasting talented position prospects to get slightly above average pitching. It’s Soto or bust for me at the deadline. There is no superstar on the market, so keep what you have and trade for Thor this season and see where you’re at.
Hypothetically, a lineup of Carlson-Goldy-Soto-Arenado-O’Neill-Yepez-Edman-Herrera-Dejong for 2023 and a rotation of Mikolas-Hudson-Flaherty-Clevinger-Manaea with Libby or Thompson in the wings, and the pen mostly filled out with the young guys plus whatever you get for Bader…that’s a 95+ win team IMO. That’s what “going all in” looks like.
Of course, like I said, maybe all these prospects pan out and outplay Soto anyway but to match Soto you’d need Walker to be at least a 5 WAR guy and Winn a 4 WAR guy to “lose” a trade with those two as the centerpiece.
You realize that we could acquire pitching as well, right? We don’t have to trade prospects for mediocre pitchers
Yes I do realize that. I also realize that this front office hasn’t made a significant deadline deal since 2014 so now we should believe that they will get Soto AND a pitcher at this deadline? I am going to remain skeptical on that one. Your 2023 scenario looks good but we can’t wait until 2023 to add significant pitching. We need it now.
And I reject the premise that only mediocre pitching is available right now. Montas, Plesac, Civale, and Snell all have high upside and perhaps Bieber is available also. Clevinger and Thor would be good rentals.
The Cardinal organization is built on the premise of developing and keeping players like Walker Winn, Gorman, Yepez, Burleson, Libby, etc…. We need to keep as many of them as we can.
I assume everyone understands that acquiring either Soto or a top of rotation starter will cost one or two top prospects. Not the level just under that and not whatever we can do without.
I always love how people talk about prospects like they are automatically going to play the same way in the majors as they did in minors. Doesn’t usually happen that way. Gorman was talked about as the next coming but seems like a typical swing for the fences player to me. Yea he can hit some long ones but how far they go doesn’t really matter to me. Liberatore looks ok but I’m not ready to say he’s a one or two starter. Donovan has been really good but he wasn’t one of those being touted. If there are guys down there that are can’t miss future all stars then maybe they should be up here already. Personally I’d trade prospects for proven talent especially if said talent is in it’s prime and we have some control any day. Now whether that trade should be for a position player or a pitcher is up to opinion. I believe it should be for proven pitching.
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