Houston Astros (and Red Sox) Stealing Signs

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  • #123250
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Another spin on the many lawsuits against the Astros.

    A law firm that filed suits on behalf of Astros fans who bought tickets and want their money back has met with retaliation from the team’s Double-A club. The Tulsa Corpus Christi team canceled the law firm’s $45,000 annual partnership with them.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Brian WaltonBrian Walton.
    #123279
    Avatarforsch31
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    Whether or not it stopped when Cora and Beltran left, the knowledge of how the system worked was still out there to be used at any time. Fiers would have no way of knowing that they stopped. They might have changed the delivery of how to let a batter know. I’m not saying Fiers is innocent of anything. Surely, he has the right to try to protect his current team mates, though.

    #123316
    Avatargscottar
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    The Tulsa Drillers are a Dodger affiliate. The team that pulled the plug on the law firm is in Corpus Christi.

    I am glad I don’t work in the Astro PR Dept. A lot of discord in their organization.

    #123317
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Well Jim Edmonds kind of filled in some blanks on the cheating today. He wasn’t surprised as that kind of stuff has been going on since he played but not the electronic stuff. Most interesting is that he said only one TV in the video room is in real time now. All the other TVs (he said about 20) have a 5 second delay and I would think that is to cut out the cheating ability. I hope the guy with the replay reviews has the real time TV because MLB cut down the time for managers to request a review from 30 seconds to 20 seconds.

    #123334
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    More lowlights courtesy of the Astros PR department…

    #123337
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Well Jimmy Ballgame would know a lot about cheating. 😉 Ba-dum-tiss

    #123390
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    As one might expect, the Astros are asking the betting losses lawsuit be thrown out. One would think this would also apply to the fan ticket refund ones.

    #123405
    Avatargscottar
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    #123541
    Avatargscottar
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    #123545
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Fortunately, it was not a beaning.

    #123548
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    The HBP of Diaz was pretty obvious. My idea may not be popular but the deliberate HBPs need to be stopped on the Astros, at least the obvious ones. Failure to do so is going to cause some pretty ugly scenes. MLB will have to come forward with some punishment that will put it to a stop. Automatic ejections of pitcher and manager should be the initial umpire reaction. Perhaps a large club fine will be necessary. Diaz doesn’t even have a World Series ring so he was a bad target but Urenas is known for that CS kind of stuff too. I just feel for the overall good of the game there is not a need to possibly end a career for hurt feelings. End of rant.

    #123563
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    Didn’t take long to go from cheaters to victims.

    #123564
    Avatargscottar
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    I am not an advocate of trying to hurt someone intentionally but I am ok with sending a message. As TLR used to say keep it below the shoulders and it is part of the game. If the Astros think they are going to be able to play the sympathy card then good luck with that. Bob Gibson would show these punks a thing or two if he thought they were stealing signs off of him.

    #123570
    thejagerthejager
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    Im not normally a fan of hitting guys on purpose, but as someone said…below the shoulders…and to be fair…hit them in the back even…

    AS i said i dont want guys getting hurt, but i am willing to asterisk that if we have known admitted cheaters going unpunished by MLB. If they are not being punished then it needs to be found somewhere else. A few bruises are a small price to pay, and at least it means some kind of order is being instituted.

    Hitting a batter is not an ejection unless it is done on purpose. To prove that means admission, which rarely ever comes. It can always be said a pitch came out wrong or slipped. And that white lie, is far from the unethical cheating that the Astros did.

    If you want to protect the Astros. punish them severely. The other players even more than the fans will let you know if it is sufficient enough by how they deal with them on the field.

    #123975
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    #123976
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    The Astros hitting coach throughout was clueless, or so he says…

    #123977
    Avatar1982 willie
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    well I think if the Astros management and players went to the commissioner and asked for their world series victory as well as their pennant victory be taken away and the commissioner obliged them, then maybe some or most of this would slowly subside. Still would be some bad blood but people will forgive even the worst of things if the perpetrators are truly sorry.

    #124029
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    #124049
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    I didn’t follow this story as closely as others here because I’m a 95% Cardinal-follower only. Could someone post a list of the players involved. I know that Beltran was the can-ringer and should get the Rose treatment but who was responsible for getting the signs to him from the video room. I would truly appreciate it.

    #124053
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    As I understood it 14 the can banger had a video monitor on a table in the dugout hallway so he got the feed from the CF camera and either he or an assistant banged the can. Hinch says he deliberately knocked the table over twice but did not take action to shut it down. I am sure others have more info.

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by AvatarMinuteman3.
    #124055
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Ny, the players were offered immunity in return for their testimony. As a result, there is only suspicion which players were most involved, other than Carlos Beltran. Back a few pages is a chart that shows which players were at bat most and least often when the audible banging was recorded, but even that is not 100% definitive.

    #124057
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    On July 31st of 2016 Andrew Cashner drilled Diaz and broke his right thumb ending Diaz’ 2016. At that point of the season Diaz was batting .300 17 HRs .874 OPS. He was a great surprise for the Cards and was being considered for ROY.

    He never fully recovered from that injury and on Dec. 1st 2017 he was traded to TOR for J.B. Woodman. Although Diaz has kicked around the MLs, he never returned to those magic days with the 2016 Cards.

    12 days later Holliday also was HBP and fractured his thumb on Aug 11th. He returned on the last weekend of the season for 2ABs and never played again for the Cards instead choosing free agency on Nov. 3rd, 2016.
    STL finished 2016 17.5 GB and that was the first of the three years the Cards missed the post-season.

    I felt some anger regarding those injuries and still feel bad for both Diaz and Holliday. What if those two pitches had landed differently?

    #124058
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Back a few pages is a chart that shows which players were at bat most and least often when the audible banging was recorded.

    Brian that was a great chart. I wonder if you might pass it to Danny McLaughlin. Most of the razzing the other day was against Altuve who was probably of the big names was least likely to use the banging – only something like 24 times in 800 pitches or 2.8. Dan did not seem to be aware that such a chart existed. Plus Jose is a free swinger of the highest order. Not much good a bang does to a guy like that.

    #124059
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    Thanks Brian, it was on page 18 along with other “bang” info. This is what I was interested in seeing. Does anyone seem to think that these players lost trade value for the rest of their careers?

    Player Bangs Pitches Bangs %
    Marwin Gonzalez 147 807 18.2%
    George Springer 140 972 14.4%
    Carlos Beltran 138 765 18.0%
    Alex Bregman 133 831 16.0%
    Yuli Gurriel 120 723 16.6%
    Carlos Correa 97 629 15.4%
    Jake Marisnick 83 364 22.8%
    Evan Gattis 71 462 15.4%
    Brian McCann 45 536 8.4%
    Josh Reddick 28 757 3.7%
    Tyler White 28 106 26.4%
    Jose Altuve 24 886 2.7%
    Norichika Aoki 16 261 6.1%
    Derek Fisher 16 211 7.6%
    J.D. Davis 14 49 28.6%
    Max Stassi 13 52 25.0%
    Cameron Maybin 13 62 21.0%
    Juan Centeno 13 65 20.0%
    AJ Reed 4 27 14.8%
    Tony Kemp 0 23 0.0%

    #124060
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Although Diaz has kicked around the MLs, he never returned to those magic days with the 2016 Cards.

    Wasn’t he traded along with Grichuk and one other to Toronto for more than just one player in return? Anyway he did windup with Houston and is still there and playing behind Correa and I think he has also played some left field. Not too bad to stay with a MLB team.

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