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I came of age in an era when the SS position was composed entirely of high grade leather and the names were Belanger, Kessinger, Concepcion etc. The quality of the mitt at the position far outweighed any considerations concerning offensive production. Obviously as a Redbird fan I’m offended that Ozzie Smith isn’t included in the top 10. He’s the greatest defensive SS I’ve ever witnessed. I’ll also say that in my view, Derek Jeter was the greatest all around SS I’ve ever seen play. Jeter was more than an all time great player. He was a winner who always carried himself with a type of class and style that could only be termed upscale and admirable. To me Jeter belongs at number one on the all time SS list and to mention anyone named Arod in the same conversation as Derek Jeter is tantamount to heresy.
The main problem I have always had with the DH is that, to me, a baseball player has to both hit and field. One or the other doesn’t cut it for me. It follows that every player’s greatness must be judged on his whole game, not just on whichever aspect of it he excelled at. I grew up in the Maxvill era when the Cardinals shortstop hit .210 year after year, but had a good glove. I couldn’t ever embrace that. I would certainly have Ozzie in the top 10, but I can understand those who would have him sneeking in at #10. The career OPS+ of 87 would look worse to non-Cardinals fans than it does to us, who saw the kind of total player he turned himself into.
Just saw where Flaherty has signed with the Tigers. One year/$14M.
Not sure if this has been discussed in this thread before or not.
This shortstop list is obviously posted to create a fake debate and generate clicks. I’m sure their next greatest centerfielders list won’t include Willie Mays.
Tigers, Freddy Pacheco Agree To Minor League Deal https://t.co/Xiygyq7EGv pic.twitter.com/M10O4ZkGap
— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) December 15, 2023
To me Ozzie is the greatest shortstop in history. Ol honus gets some credence cause of the conditions of the ballfields of the day and his peers raved about him and I take those such opinions as facts but since I saw Smith everyday I have to go there. With list like these I can’t take them seriously. If you are mainly just taking offense into account, then just say greatest players, don’t list the position cause you obviously don’t hold it in any meaning. I saw a list where they had Jeter over Ozzie, that’s just a joke and I’m a huge Jeter fan. But as a shortstop, he was at best average and you could argue below. It’s why you can’t take such things seriously.
Royals To Sign Michael Wacha https://t.co/n29pUEGU22 pic.twitter.com/LDwaQCncx3
— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) December 15, 2023
In terms of WAR I am not sure anyone can top Honus Wagner as a shortstop. He was sort of an early day version of the type of player we see today at the position, a big guy with range and terrific offensive production.
But yes, Ozzie is easily a top 10 latter day shortstop.
Saw that Flaherty closed a deal in Detroit. Hope he can be healthy and get his career back on track after all the early promise he showed.
Today, they snub Bob Gibson. Mercy!
Continuing the pattern, I am guessing MLB Network will leave Lou Brock off the best basestealers list next.
With 5 Cy Young Awards and the second-most strikeouts of any pitcher, Randy Johnson towers at #⃣1⃣ on our list of the best starting pitchers since 1947! #Prime9 pic.twitter.com/7Qxx5EnwgI
— MLB Network (@MLBNetwork) December 15, 2023
Padres continuing to dump salary.
#Braves Acquire LHP Ray Kerr, DH Matt Carpenter, Cash from Padres: pic.twitter.com/vXY5MSSuXB
— Atlanta Braves (@Braves) December 15, 2023
Why in the world would the Braves be interested in Matt Carpenter?????
They might not be. The Padres might have bundled him with the guy the Braves did want, as a way to move a contract off their books. Nothing unusual about that.
I hope you were joking, Oliver.
Carp’s time as a Brave ended quickly as they eat $4 million above the $1.5 million they got from the Padres. As bling guessed, he was in the trade so the Braves could get the reliever they wanted from the Padres. IMO, Carpenter will have a very hard time getting an MLB deal.
Matt Carpenter has been released. The Braves initially hoped to be able to trade his bad contract like they had Stassi’s and Gonzales’.
— Mark Bowman (@mlbbowman) December 18, 2023
Former Cardinal Aaron Miles has been named infield and third base coach for the Oakland Ballers (Pioneer League). pic.twitter.com/ikpL024ux6
— Arch City Media (@ArchCityMedia) December 19, 2023
Carp did more than I would’ve guessed after leaving the Cards, getting nearly 400 plate appearances and producing over 2 WAR. That’s 2 more WAR than he produced in his last 3 seasons combined as a Cardinal.
The Carp experience was really a low point, illustrating the absurd lengths the org will go to avoid eating bad contract. Part of it was loyalty to a long time guy, but, unlike the Waino spectacle last year, the team had a chance and putting a winning team out there was important. Not important enough though, which was and is discouraging. We want to think that last year was a reality check, but what happens if/when one of the current aging bronze busts goes over the cliff like Carp did, with the org on the hook for some big paychecks? My guess is it will be the Carp experience all over again.
All of Carp’s post-Cards success was during 47 games with the Yankees in 2022. But when it ended, it ended fast. Immediately after that late-season burst, he went 1-for-12 with nine Ks in the playoffs, and NY didn’t want him back for 2023. But those 47 games were enough to induce the Pads to give him two years. They should have known better.
Regarding comparing to others, Carp dropped off at age 32, earlier than most players. I get why they initially thought he could come back, but it went on and on and on… The closest situation I can compare it to was Allen Craig, but in that case, they unloaded him before his value totally cratered.
Giving out no trade protection so frequently can turn around to bite a team later. Some folks think that is easy to get around, but it isn’t. And when you are already averse to eating money, having to burn more cash to buy out the NTC tips the scales even further.
I will give the Cards credit for finally buying out the final year of Dexter Fowler’s deal, to the tune of $12.75 million, if I recall correctly. Though I was critical of the Padres, they bought down the cost of trading Carp’s bad contract by giving the Braves a useful player (and some cash) with him. The Cards FO hasn’t shown that type of creativity and them giving up too soon on future All-Stars makes them even more gun shy to trade.
They made their bed…
Unfortunately the Cardinals recent history has had several examples of paying for no production, and giving away a lot of production. The result has become a sudden collapse from first to worst.
I think the White Sox will see that they don’t have anything in Paul DeJong, but they did a low risk deal at one year and only (kind of weird to say “only” when you are talking a mil and three quarters for a year – I would take that 🙂 )
Can they reverse it back? I really don’t see it happening the way they are approaching it this off-season. Think a full youth movement would have been the way to go.
If the Sox wouldn’t have signed him he’d have showed up in a Redbird uniform during ST’ing with a revamped swing that was certain to resurrect his career…I’m just glad he’s in Chicago so that he doesn’t take up a roster spot and possibly stand in the way of the return of fan favorite Manny Motter…
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