October 16, 2020 at 6:12 pm #144711bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
I like Freeman when he was with the club, and felt it was a mistake letting him go. It has not turned out to make much of a difference. Hopefully he catches on somewhere in 2021.October 16, 2020 at 6:57 pm #144713
I was listening to MLB radio on XM today and they were discussing the Arozarena trade. Eduardo Perez said that he talked to the Rays GM shortly after the trade and asked why they would trade Liberatore. The response was that the Rays thought so much of Arozarena, they wanted him. They felt he would be a star in the MLB.
I think that pretty much sums up why the Cardinals traded Arozarena instead of another young OFer in the trade. There was almost no one who complained about the trade at the time it was made.October 17, 2020 at 9:46 pm #144827shakenbake McBrideParticipantFree
Arozarena sets rookie mark with 7th HR…great trade eh.October 17, 2020 at 11:59 pm #144834mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
Eduardo Perez’ comment sure makes the Rays front office seem brilliant because there isn’t another GM anywhere that wouldn’t have made that trade at the time.
Something is not making sense here.October 20, 2020 at 1:06 pm #145105gscottarParticipantPaid - AnnualOctober 21, 2020 at 2:32 pm #145191CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
Perdomo looking at a non tender now.October 21, 2020 at 2:36 pm #145193Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
Agreed. First thing I thought of, too.October 21, 2020 at 2:47 pm #145197BlackHillsCardParticipantFree
Trust me forsch, I complained all over the internet about the trade.October 21, 2020 at 3:13 pm #145198
Well, that would fit within the ALMOST no one. Obviously, some were not OK with it. A VAST majority (on this site) were OK with it.October 24, 2020 at 9:22 pm #145488RatsbuddyParticipantFree
Randy Arozarena just hit his 9th homerun of the post-season. Thats a record.
But not to worry, I am quite certain we did not trade away Babe Ruth or Mike Trout.
r/Esteemed RatOctober 24, 2020 at 9:37 pm #145491
Really Forsch? Some said ouch when the trade was made.October 24, 2020 at 10:03 pm #145497
Just check out the threads about the trade. There was the one when the trade was made and another one reviewing the trade a few months later. I see very few that didn’t like the trade. I was one who commented that if it was the Cardinals choice on which OFer, I was disappointed. In that same post, I also commented that I thought the trade was a good one. There are others who made similar comments but almost no one said they disliked the trade on this site.October 24, 2020 at 10:59 pm #145507
As a matter of fact, bc, you said on the later thread that you would probably have made the trade if the Rays had insisted on Arozarena. It’s hard to say you were opposed if you would have made the trade. You further stated “I hated to lose Arozarena but I think it was an overall decent trade.” I understand you have “buyers remorse” after the fact.
Posters for the trade: LACardFan, GameCard, Mrperkins, forsch31, CariocaCardinal, Bw52, bicyclemike, gscottar, Beopig, mudville, jj-cf-stl, Oquendo11
Posters who never said whether they did or did not like the trade but commented: CFICT, BlackHillsCard, stlcard25, 1964cards, 1982 willie, PugsleyAddams, Ratsbuddy, 14NyquisT, Euro Dandy
Posters who indicated they were not in favor of the deal: Minuteman3October 25, 2020 at 7:26 am #145547
Sure I said that Forsch. I like Liberatore. But I’ve touted Arozarena consistently and said that I wished O’Neill, Bader, or Thomas had been the one traded.
I really didn’t like trading RA at all. Arozarena outshone all the other outfielders in 2019. But at least we got some value for him. And has been posted by some, the Rays wanted him badly. Deal doesn’t happen if the Cards don’t include him.
So it wasn’t the Cards choice on whom to include in that trade.October 25, 2020 at 7:48 am #145548
For the record, I liked the trade and probably would make it again if it was today. Of course, with Randy’s Mike Trout impersonation, he’d probably be worth a lot more in a deal. Lol. So maybe the particulars would have been different if it was made post 2020.October 25, 2020 at 7:51 am #145549
So it wasn’t the Cards choice on whom to include in that trade.
To be fair, I very much doubt that the deal wouldn’t have gotten done had the Cards included Dylan Carlson. That is speculation, of course, but Carlson is much younger and was rated higher by everyone possible last year. To me, it seems like the Rays’ evaluation of our young OFers was:
1st. Dylan Carlson
2nd. Randy Arozarena
Everyone else didn’t matter. Only the first two would have netted Liberatore in a trade.October 25, 2020 at 8:03 am #145553
I also said, 25, (ad nauseam), that when Mo traded RA and didn’t extend Ozuna, our outfield was in the hands of an “out of position” veteran in the twilight and 4 unproven youngsters. With no one to protect Goldy. Although I liked getting Liberatore, I was really worried about a weak offense getting weaker.October 25, 2020 at 8:10 am #145554
Bc, do you suppose it’s possible that Mo, whether he would admit it or not, saw 2020 (and potentially 2021) as a punt year? The payroll was locked up due to the Fowler, Carp, Miller, Leake deals that were providing next to no production. You know that your pitching staff is solid, the defense and base running should be good, but the offense is mediocre. So stock up the farm with pitching and prepare for when you have the money to sign offense while pivoting on your amazing pitching staff in 2022-23.
At this point, why not play the young players and see what you have? I know that you’re on the “they’re trading the wrong player” trail, but this is exactly what were looking at by trading Arozarena and playing Thomas, O’Neill and Bader. It worked out exactly wrong as of those four, two had abysmal years, one had an average year and one looked like Babe Ruth.October 25, 2020 at 8:34 am #145557
As you said, 25, only Carlson or Arozarena would have gotten the deal done. What does that say about Bader, O’Neill, Thomas, and Williams? And you want to roll with them again in 2021?October 25, 2020 at 8:41 am #145559
As you said, 25, only Carlson or Arozarena would have gotten the deal done. What does that say about Bader, O’Neill, Thomas, and Williams? And you want to roll with them again in 2021?
Absolutely. I want to save money so that the team can be a World Series contender in 2022 and 2023, not upgrade us by a win or two in 2021 by spending to excess and thus making the Cards just another team for another two years.October 25, 2020 at 8:52 am #145561
And I’ll go with short term plugs (Beltran, Berkman, etc.) like we did with older players in the past. Or trades for high ceiling MLB ready players. Have no interest in big time expensive free agents in 2022 and 2023, just because we can afford them.October 25, 2020 at 9:02 am #145562
Since this isn’t the right thread for it, I’ll just address it once and leave you to it…
I wouldn’t be surprised if Beltran was on something that aided his career toward the end. And Berkman was injured all year his last year in St Louis. Depending on old players to perform is exactly why we are in the predicament we are (Carp, Fowler, Miller, Mikolas will take up nearly $65M payroll next year). I’m not interested in going that route again, even if it worked out fine before. It has worked out terribly in far more cases than it has been a positive.
In the case of expensive free agents, there are a number of 27-28 year olds who will be free agents in the next couple of years. At least then, you are getting 3-4 prime years before the inevitable decline. That’s why I’m happier to go that route.October 25, 2020 at 9:31 am #145569
Okay, 25, you go for those younger guys who want huge dollars over many years. That limit your payroll flexIble going forward. Personally, I don’t want to see more Leake, Fowler, Cecil, Miller, etc. FA type contracts.October 25, 2020 at 9:49 am #145576jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
Scratch Brantley on a 3yr deal, got it.October 25, 2020 at 6:46 pm #145620
I’d really like to see Brantley as a Cardinal next season.
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