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The amount STL is, or isn’t willing to pay down our good players that have starter type value, will be more telling.
Gray would be a #4/#5 starter on most of the teams trying to contend. They can find those in FA at much lower cost without giving up prospects.
Even though I am not a fan of the idea I can at least understand why they are going to trade Donovan.
He is at his peak value right now in terms of bringing back prospects.
The team will not have to pay down any of his salary.
There are multiple replacements for him already on the 40 man roster.None of those criteria apply to Gray.
We don’t need prospects, IMO. The community top 20 this year is the most loaded with prospects that I have ever seen. We can be grateful for the good fortune we had in the last two drafts for that. Let’s see the Cardinals put together a package for one impact prospect, if possible, preferably a pitcher. I always thought that Wetherholt was a fit for 2B. Now there’s talk of him being our third baseman. But if Wetherholt is determined not to be a good fit for third base, and if they trade Arenado and Donovan, that leaves us with Gorman, or maybe Saggese, to play 3B. I don’t think Gorman was even a league average second baseman defensively based on the eye test, so it’s hard for me to imagine Gorman reliably catching and throwing the ball from the third base position. Then, there are all those strikeouts. (I do understand there are conflicting views on Gorman.) If they trade both Arenado and Donovan, then it appears that they will have to to allow Gorman and Saggese to compete for the third base job. Or they can trade for a third baseman, or sign a free agent third baseman.
I don’t think that Gray is a #4/5 type at this point. He’s more of a 2/3 unless the staff is stacked. Fielding independent stats like him a lot more than the straight runs allowed stats do, but even if you just take that as an average, he has value. The terrible back loaded deal is the biggest obstacle. If the Cards had done the normal thing and he was paid $25M this year, we’d find a pretty easy taker and grab at least a useful prospect.
I don’t think Gorman was even a league average second baseman defensively based on the eye test, so it’s hard for me to imagine Gorman reliably catching and throwing the ball from the third base position. Then, there are all those strikeouts. (I do understand there are conflicting views on Gorman.) If they trade both Arenado and Donovan, then it appears that they will have to to allow Gorman and Saggese to compete for the third base job. Or they can trade for a third baseman, or sign a free agent third baseman.
The case for Gorman to 3B is that you hope that an entire off-season devoted to his most natural position places him more in line with his prospect pedigree, which was an averageish glove there (IIRC he was fabulous at turning double plays and the range and arm were just ok). Then you hope for a career year with the bat, which is probably something like .240/.340/.450. That would probably be around a 115 OPS+ with an averageish glove, or a 2-2.5 WAR player. That’s best case. If you could platoon he and Saggese and get 2.5-3 WAR, it would be simply serendipitous and set us up nicely to cash in on a trade next year.
Now that we got that dream out of the way, he would be a cheap 1 WAR guy to bide time for the system to produce. Maybe we get lucky in the draft lotto and can draft another Cholowsky.
I was thinking that Jesus Baez could develop into the third baseman we are looking for. But after reviewing his stats again, I don’t see much to support that idea. I saw that Wetherholt has played 85 games at SS, 12 games at 3B, and 20 games at 2B since joining the Cardinals. If he can handle SS well enough to play that many games there, then he should be fine, defensively, at 3B. That would solve a lot of problems. Think of an infield of Wetherholt, Winn, Saggese/Gorman/Fermin, and Contreras/Herrera.
(Unless things change considerably for Gorman during this offseason, I’d like to see what Saggese could do if playing at 2B every day. I’ve commented before that I’d like to see Herrera at 1B.)
Just the thought of another year of Gorman agitating the oxygen molecules at the plate gives me a rash.
If CB is targeting young controllable pitching, a Donovan bundle approach would attract a nice return. Add some service years (catcher?) w/Donny and target a short list arm.
Keeping the bigger contracts out of it and being willing to trade service year depth.
#STLCards coaching staff returnees for ‘26:
•Jon Jay – Outfield, Baserunning & Quality Control
•Brandon Allen – Ast. Hitting Coach
•Julio Rangel – Ast. Pitching/Bullpen Coach
•Jamie Pogue – Asst. Coach/Bullpen Coach
•Kleininger “KT” Teran – Bullpen Catcher(2/2)
— John Denton (@JohnDenton555) November 26, 2025
This is especially interesting given RHH OF is a Cardinals need.
Did you know: last season, there were fewer righty-swinging OF who played regularly and hit well than there'd been since … 1960??
On a sudden drought that might meaningfully affect the trading season this winter..
— Mike Petriello (@mike_petriello) December 7, 2025
I had just been thinking we might be looking at outfielders in the R5. Maybe we aren’t the only org that’s been torching talent with the optimized mistake launcher development model.
Things are so bad I see that Katie Woo has left the Cardinal beat and has joined the Dodgers beat for The Athletic.
Mud, this is a response from like three weeks ago or so but just a quick defense of Jesus Baez, he’s only going into his 21 year-old season, which is basically a college junior and likely to be in AA in 2026. I’m not saying I’m overly excited about him but definitely hopeful.
Blaze the Glazed Donut I mean Jordan is young too, maybe the “new regime” can figure something out.
I’d be very shocked on two things in the R5 this week:
A) A team takes Jordan
B) The Cards don’t take a flier on a LHRPI believe I could edit my last post, but I’m just going to add on one thing. When you look at Glazed Blaze Jordan’s overall stats last year as a 22-year-old (.270 BA overall) and being in AAA. He’s actually a lot better than I realized minus the batting average in Memphis.
Never expected a .250 average in MLB to be “good”.
Better pick up some Tums and Pepto Nate…. Walker should be in Memphis unless his offseason work goes great.
He is at a point where he can prove himself and make millions or keep falling apart and work in fast food.
https://awfulannouncing.com/mlb/fanduel-reduces-jim-hayes-role-cardinals-broadcasts-alexa-datt.html
Looks like this will be a change for 2026.
(with distain) Of course. Throw out the one breath of humor I liked on pre-games.
Nothing at all against Alexa Datt, she’s a better reporter than a lot of women involved in this type of job, I can tell she does her homework and she’s earned her way, but I always enjoyed Jim Hayes’ wry humor with the players on the dugout interviews and more personable type of reporting out in the stands. He was also able to get insights from some players/coaches that normally were very guarded or were not very approachable. I will miss that.After this last season, I will not miss the Gorman and Walker exits if they happen either. A change of scenery would probably jump start both their careers for the good, seemed to work for a lot of our other former players.
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