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bling said:
I’d like to see him and Curtis Taylor in ML camp, at least for a bit. So they bump some other 4A types, wheel spinners and hospital cases, so what. Tired of the annual Mo tactic of hiring a journeyman scrap heap guy with a ML camp invite attached, while in house strong performers don’t get the bone.
But isn’t Taylor a “journeyman scrap-heap guy,” too? He’s been in pro ball for 10 years in at least seven organizations plus a year in Mexico without ever reaching MLB. It would be a nice perseverance story, but odds are stacked against him becoming a difference-maker in MLB.
Of course, this is a moot point if he becomes a free agent after the season. The chances of him getting a 40-man spot to ensure he stays are not good. But maybe they can re-sign him with a promise for a non-roster camp invitation. His record doesn’t indicate he has ever been in a big league spring camp.
Why does everybody seem to think that Arenado is gone after this season?
Isn’t he under contract for 2026?
The fact that the Cardinals intentionally removed him from the game yesterday before a pitch was thrown so he could be recognized by the fans is a pretty good indication he won’t be back in 2026.
Why not give Taylor and Wilkerson a chance to pitch in STL? They aren’t pedigree guys but they performed well at AAA this year, they are cheap, and we are pitching starved. Isn’t that exactly what a rebuilding team should do?
The #STLCards Triple-A affiliate, Memphis, finished 80-68, its first winning season since 2018.
Curtis Taylor won the IL’s ERA crown (3.21 ERA). Aaron Wilkerson led the IL in IP (152.2) and WHIP (1.08). Oddanier Mosqueda made the most appearances (55) in the IL.
— John Denton (@JohnDenton555) September 22, 2025
As for Herrera I have mixed emotions about him going back to catcher. I mean if he can actually become a good defensive catcher then great but that is a big if. The other issue that is rarely mentioned is that I am of the opinion that if a player is worried about their defense it can impact their offense. I haven’t delved into the numbers on Herrera but I do know that he seemed to flourish at DH because all he had to worry about was hitting, and man he can flat out hit. I would hate to mess that up.
Taylor K/9 7.7, Wilkerson K/9 6.2
Nope and nope according to the org’s way of thinking. Better to invite a double digit guy who has never been able to stay on the mound. We can all get lathered up over how great he is and then be bummed when he inevitably goes on the IL again. Don’t ask me how I know, its a secret.I am not aware the clubhouse is demoralized.
First off, leadership comes from the top. And I don’t see it there. My big gripe these days is centered on DeWitt.
I think that you would have to agree that many times during the season the body language on a whole showed signs of being less than upbeat. Some hustle was lacking and where is the dugout leadership? Donovan shows some signs of leading but he has been rumored to be “gone” since Spring training. Contreras showed some gusto but doesn’t appear to be the leadership type. Arenado is having the worst season of his career so he hasn’t been too much of a help. The experienced dugout pitching denizens Gray and Mikolas, not much there. Actually, if any or all the players read the papers…. blogs…. podcasts, pretty much all they see is that the club is at least two years away from being a step above mediocre…. at least, and that possibly all the regulars and rotation guys (2 exceptions) will be somewhere else by then. That’s the writing on the wall. And certainly not good for morale at all.
They will, if they are still on the team, have a new boss at the close of this season. Some don’t react to that very well right away. They can all see and hear that changes are coming and what that means to them personally is anyone’s guess, but likely it causes everyone to be on edge.
I’m not criticizing anyone concerning what seems to be low morale in general. Rather that these guys are human and it would be difficult for anyone in their position to be feeling very chipper, especially in the dugout. The players are human…. not data sheets.
I haven’t even mentioned Marmol…. the less said today is best. And only touched on Mozeliak. Maybe save that for a rainy day.
I don’t have a problem with trying to trade Arenado and/or Contreras but trading Sonny Gray would be nothing but a blatant money grab. There is absolutely no other reason to trade him but the bottom line and there is no reason to believe the savings would be reinvested into the team. He is literally blocking no one and we are absolutely desperate for starters.
Gray’s contract calls for him to be paid $35 Million for 2026, and 2027 is $30 Million with a $5 Million buyout. He will be 36 in November. Not sure how hard that would be to move.
Gray is owed $40M after this season. The Cardinals would have to eat some money to move him. I am guessing at least $15M and maybe $20M, which means they would be saving $20M to $25M. What are the chances they would reinvest those savings back into the 26 man payroll? And who would take his place in the rotation? I do think there would be interest from other teams in him but it would be nothing but a money grab for the Cardinals.
The only reason to trade Gray is if he wants out. Otherwise they are just taking the savings and having to buy another starter with it. They are already short starters. I think Gray likely stays. Arenado almost certainly goes. Contreras probably goes if he’s willing to go.
Whatever Bloom’s plan for the future is, a soon to be 36 year old starter isn’t part of it. So we’re talking about selling some tickets next year. I don’t know what Bloom will do. He can hire some Lynns and Gibsons, or get creamed all year. Creamed less if he keeps Gray, hopefully, but Gray will be 36 and they don’t last forever.
“Gray is owed 40mil after this season”
Bill may look at Grays contract that way, but a buyer wouldn’t. A buyer on Gray sees 2/65 instead of 1/40mil. Why does a contender acquire Gray for one season, and at an increased cost?
Bill buying down Gray by 15mil leaves 2/50 remaining, which is the contracts original AAV. The backload was 15mil season one.
Surplus value? Fangraphs has Sonny at 28mil to date, for the season.
Fangraphs has Sonny at 28mil to date, for the season.
What was the value in that? Low attendance and no post season. Calculating value is just a numbers game if you don’t actually get anything of value out of it.
I would say the Cardinals got value out of Gray. Their record in games he started was 21-10. They need at least 2 more starting pitchers that allow the team to win around 2/3 of his starts.
The Cardinals were 18-36 in games started by Pallante and Fedde.
Following on gscottar’s point, let’s step back and think about reasons to trade or keep Gray.
If their plan is to trade Gray and use the money to get better other players, I could understand it. But we all know their primary motivation would be to save money and reduce payroll further. Unless they could turn Gray into a young, controllable starting pitcher or two, how would it help the team win more games?
It is far, far from the fact that Gray is blocking a young starter from the minor league system. So, it isn’t that.
So why should anyone root for Gray to be traded, when the only perceived benefit would be to help DeWitt lose less money? (I feel the same way about Contreras, though not as strongly, but not Arenado.)
To me it is not that i do or don’t want him traded. It is just a fact that retaining him will not contribute to turning things around and fielding a more successful team in the future. It seems intuitive that everything they do and every dollar they spend should be on point.
bling, I want what you say to be true. The problem is that I don’t believe there is any correlation between cutting payroll and accelerating player development progress. Show me that direct link and I will join you.
Keeping Gray will keep the current team more competitive in the PRESENT. Future development is occurring separately and in the background. At least, that is how I see it.
Whatever Bloom’s plan for the future is, a soon to be 36 year old starter isn’t part of it.
I am not saying they should give him a 4 year extension. I’m saying they should at least keep him until the deadline next year then re-evaluate. Unless Bloom is ready to go full on Pirates mode and be a 60 win team next season.
Bill may look at Grays contract that way, but a buyer wouldn’t. A buyer on Gray sees 2/65 instead of 1/40mil. Why does a contender acquire Gray for one season, and at an increased cost?
I think many contenders would take him at 1yr/$20M if the Cards pay down the other $20M. Then the contender could decide if they want to pay him for 2027 or not.
The Cubs took Kyle Tucker on 1yr/$16M this year, gave up a good prospect, and probably won’t re-sign him after this season.
* if club exercises 2027 option, Gray may opt out of contract and elect free agency – Cots
Mmm mmm mm, so much for two seasons control as a selling point. Yah, FA-to-be.
Lol, would Poor Bill really pick it up?
They used to list those as mutual options. Now its a club option with a player opt out?
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